Firemonkey Madness

[CBEMT]

Most big cities with a minority hiring problem do this because the minorities claim that requiring EMT to be hired creates an unfair financial burden to be considered for a municipal job.

Yeah. Because minorities are beating down the doors of fire departments everywhere.

Riiiiight. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Chief1C]

Some EMS training, if not for the community, at least for your fellow firefighters.

In the modern fire service, if a guy (or gal) only wanted to put water on fire and nothing else, they're going to be hard pressed at finding a job (or keeping that job). Nearly every firefighting course I've been through has had a unit on emergency medical care. Not only EMS, but it's intertwined with all sorts of SAR-both ground and structural, rescue, hazmat of all levels, etc. It's expected that upon arrival, there will be a suggested solution (preventing fire, injury, death, worsening) to most problems and bad situations, many of which, do not involve live fire.

[Dustdevil]

Some EMS training, if not for the community, at least for your fellow firefighters.

You're missing the point. It's not about whether or not firemonkeys should have EMS training. The question is about whether or not that training should be a requirement for application. My point is that a better system is to hire those who score best on standardised testing and who have the best overall objective positives in their favour. 120 hours of EMT training doesn't really do anything in that regard. Any idiot can pass it, so it doesn't prove to me that this applicant is a cut above any of the others. The vast differences in quality of EMT courses leaves me with no way to assume the quality or competency of the applicant. The only good thing that an applicant already being an EMT offers me as a fire employer is that it saves me the expense of getting them certified, which is damn cheap to begin with.

So what, exactly, is the benefit here? Regardless of their patch, you are still going to have to train these people to actually function competently, because there are damn few schools that do that for you. And you still have to train them to function within your system, which is probably not where they trained. I don't see any benefit to this. Any intelligent employer would rather start with a blank slate and train their own rookies, rather than with what passes for an EMT in most places.

I'd like to hear somebody explain why they believe that an FD should only hire people who are already EMTs before applying. Sounds to me like it's just a bunch of the losers I am talking about who are trying desperately to become firemonkeys, and hope their pitiful little patch actually counts for something in that process.

[Chief1C]

You're missing the point.

No I'm not..

I think it should be required. Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't mean I'm missing the point. Therefore, I didn't put much thought into it, because I believe any further debate would be fruitless.

[spoil:9f8613064c]Whats w/ all the 404 server errors?[/spoil:9f8613064c]

[FireGuard69]

Time to weigh in.

I have seen all sides of this.

Fire Dept does no EMS

Fire Dept does EMS when EMS is busy

Fire Dept does BLS, No txpt

Fire Dept does BLS txpt

Fire Dept does ALS, no txpt

Fire Dept does ALS txpt

That is not even counting the ones who have an EMS division but ARENT Firefighters.

Heres the bottom line...

FD SHOULD be doing, at a minimum, BLS level care. If you got an Engine out in the sticks, with no bus around, have em do ALS.

FD should NOT make FFs become Medics. Nor should they make Medics become FFs.

I know several depts that make all FFs become Medics within 2 years of being hired. And they made all the Medics become Firefighters. That is just WRONG. Being a Medic is a damn hard enough job without adding Firefighter to it. And being a Firefighter is a damn hard enough job without adding Medic to it.

[SFV Tactical EMS]

Boo Fricking Hoo to the minorities!

Most big cities with a minority hiring problem do this because the minorities claim that requiring EMT to be hired creates an unfair financial burden to be considered for a municipal job.

Yeah. Because minorities are beating down the doors of fire departments everywhere.

Riiiiight. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Dustdevil]

No I'm not..

You sure had a lot to say about it for somebody that doesn't think it is worthy of discussion. So yes, either you are missing the point or choosing to ignore it, because your post was on a totally unrelated tangent.

[spenac]

You sure had a lot to say about it for somebody that doesn't think it is worthy of discussion. So yes, either you are missing the point or choosing to ignore it, because your post was on a totally unrelated tangent.

Welcome back the new kindler gentler Dust. :twisted:

[lfdcaptain]

[/font:47818efe08] OOOOO - Bitter! Sounds like someone that's been turned down by more than one Fire Department, and is now trying to aggravate and perpetuate one of the biggest detriments to professional Emergency Medical service delivery, the relationship between Fire EMS and Private EMS. If this relationship between the two services continues to SUCK, it will probably be largely because of attitudes and posts like this, and from the looks of your little poll you have quite a following. That's sad.

I have read your post several times trying to determine what drives you to spew such BULL, and to encourage others to follow.

If all you run is surface street, one-at-a-time medical calls and transports, and you have enough staffing and equipment to handle the increasing demand for service, then I think I could understand your relatively narrow perspective. As I'm certain that you live in the real world, (yes I've seen your pictures), I would hope that you are intelligent enough to realize that no single service can handle the entire load.

Do you REALLY believe, and encourage others to believe, that "Fire should get out of the EMT business altogether"? If that's the case I'm sure you have a wonderful plan that will provide medical assistance in situations that are inherently manpower intensive, hazardous, or that require technical training and equipment, such as over-the-side rescue, confined space rescue, MCI incidents, or vehicle entrapment rescue using strictly Ambulance personnel. Maybe your plan is to provide the additional technical training, the required PPE, and VERY large ambulances to carry all of the necessary equipment. (heck, all you would need then is a water tank and some hose and you would have a fire engine!)

Consider this; the safety needs of several jurisdictions are met PRIMARILY by FIRE/EMS, including transport, without the NEED for a private ambulance service. Can you think of a jurisdiction that can get by with just private EMS and that doesn't NEED Fire protection?

My intent is not to demean the contribution of ANY EMS provider. I understand and respect that if we are to provide the highest levels of service possible, we will need the skill, equipment, and capabilities of ALL trained EMS personnel. In my 30 years of professional EMT experience I can't tell you how many times the administration of lifesaving care, 1-6 minutes before the arrival of an ambulance, has made the difference. I would NEVER be so full of myself to advocate that we restrict the ability to provide such care to 1 provider.

If you're just bitter and using this post to vent then fine, but let that fact be known so that we can all understand the reasons behind your ire. If I interpreted your post incorrectly I apologize and look forward to clarification

Just my 2 cents 8)

[spenac]

Fire has no business in EMS. Fire should take care of fire. Fire can take care of extrication, and the very rare rope rescue.

EMS is Medical. We need to focus on medical not fire. I have both certs. I quit the fire side. It is wrong for fire to take money that should go to EMS. There are more calls for EMS daily than fire.

Both are separate specialitys. Focus on one and become the best. Try and do both and regardless of what you think you will not do justice to either.