Law enforcement with AEDs and "unresponsive man" c

[dzmohr]

Keep in mind that in most systems a 911 hangup is law enforcement response, not an EMS response. If the caller collapsed before 911 answered law enforcement could shock minutes quicker.

If the location is flagged violent or the 911 operator sensed or had a violent situation reprorted most systems have fire/ems stand back till cleared by law enforcement, again having an AED there quicker is better.

You do get some interesting situations though! There is an officer involved shooting where he was responding to an "unresponsive man" with a shotgun by his side on the porch of a residence... Officer arrives with first aid kit and AED in hand thinking it a possible suicide.

Sees movement, drops the medical gear and grabs his weapon and fires as he sees the "unresponsive" man swing his shotgun in his direction!

Seems the paperboy that morning saw man sitting on the porch and asked if he was OK and the man did not answer him. Paperboy noticed a gun beside the man sitting in the chair who refused to answer when first asked if he was OK ( before the paperboy saw the gun and did not CARE if he was OK anymore)....

Dispatch reported THAT as "unresponsive man with a shotgun beside him".

[1835wayne]

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

WOW. I sincerely hope that the dispatcher now realizes a little more caution is in order. What if the first on scene had been the medics who simply try to run from the shotgun wielding maniac? Good possibility for a LODD there!

OR- Did the man react negatively to the LE uniform, where he might have been peacefull with EMS??

[dzmohr]

There is a little blame to go around here...dispatcher clearly needs re-education at best, EMS, from what I understand was to hold back for PD because of the involvement of a gun -- officer would have been wise to have his weapon at ready till he knew what he had for sure.....

All that is so easy in hindsight, I think I would have been thinking suicide too.

Here is a link if you want more details, it is out of Niagra County, NY

Unresponsive man shooting

[brentoli]

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

WOW. I sincerely hope that the dispatcher now realizes a little more caution is in order. What if the first on scene had been the medics who simply try to run from the shotgun wielding maniac? Good possibility for a LODD there!

OR- Did the man react negatively to the LE uniform, where he might have been peacefull with EMS??

Sounds like the dispatch told what they knew, Unresponive male with shotgun next to the side.

Maybe it is the officers fault for not being at the ready, but nope, can't ever blame anyone but dispatch around here, can we....

[brentoli]

Tell you what, next time, I will just go ahead, drive out there, see if he really is unresponsive before I dispatch you.

[1835wayne]

Without hearing the tapes, I cannot say for sure if the dispatcher relayed ALL the information or not. I am just playing devils advocate here. I do not mean to beat up on dispatchers, but as a supervisor I have experienced my dispatcher not putting the entire transmission in the radio log, misquoting callers to the point of causing complete confusion, and fabricating information instead of just saying they did not know.

By the same token, I have 2 dispatchers who are excellent to the point of replaying the tape after they dispatch the call and then giving us the exact words of the caller when we go enroute.

I do not have an axe to grind with dispatch.

Edited for spelling.

[ERDoc]

Without hearing what the tapes say, it is hard to place blame (should there even be blame?). If I was a cop and I heard that there was a guy with a gun (unconscious or not) my weapon would be drawn until the gun on the scene was secure. Then I would worry about first aid stuff. The dispatcher and dispatch info is only as good as the caller on the phone.