Paramilitary style paramedic courses

[JPINFV]

At my college the culinary arts students are always in their uniform.

Just saying, you can point to one that does one thing and I can point to one that does the opposite.

Just wondering, how much of your time in culinary arts school was spent in the kitchen? I can understand a uniform requirment when there is a reason (cleanliness in the kitchen for example). It's like you can tell when the medical students have their interviewing class because they're in "uniform" (slacks, collared shirt, short lab coat), but if all they have are lectures, then they wear comfortable clothes.

There's also no behavior modification, so to speak, in medical school. Of course medical school is a place far removed from even undergrad. No one really cares if the med students show up and all of they're lectures are recorded and posted online. It seems to be more about education than mindless rules. (as someone else posted earlier, the door is locked at 5 minutes before class?!?).

[Dustdevil]

The guys at the local auto mechanics school wear uniforms too.

Neither auto mechanics nor culinary arts is a medical profession.

Compare apples to apples.

[akroeze]

The guys at the local auto mechanics school wear uniforms too.

Neither auto mechanics nor culinary arts is a medical profession.

Compare apples to apples.

Med students aren't Paramedic students so you're still not comparing apples to apples.

You say they are both in the same group because they are medical professionals. I could say that mechanic and medic are in the same group because they are both students.

For the record, I'm playing devil's advocate here.

[Dustdevil]

You say they are both in the same group because they are medical professionals. I could say that mechanic and medic are in the same group because they are both students.

Well, looking at this as an educational issue instead of a professional issue is indeed a valid way to do this. No argument there.

So, who do you think comes out of school with the most professional preparation and positive public image, resulting in the most money and respect?

Now, which one do you think we ought to be modeling ourselves after?

[akroeze]

Well, looking at this as an educational issue instead of a professional issue is indeed a valid way to do this. No argument there.

So, who do you think comes out of school with the most professional preparation and positive public image, resulting in the most money and respect?

Now, which one do you think we ought to be modeling ourselves after?

I'm not 100% sure I understand what you are saying.

Are you somehow stating that because Doctors make more money and are respected more we should be emulating them 100%?

Doctors = money/respect

Doctors = no uniforms

Therefore:

no uniforms = money/respect

To me that is flawed logic.

If that's not what you were saying I apologize.

knowledge = power

power = corruption

knowledge = corruption

[Dustdevil]

Are you somehow stating that because Doctors make more money and are respected more we should be emulating them 100%?

I didn't say anything about 100%. Pretty damn rare you'll catch me doing that on any subject. I thought we were talking only about educational theory here. In the realm of educational theory, yes, we should be emulating the medical professions a lot more closely than the technical and labour trades. Would you disagee?

[DwayneEMTP]

I find this pretty interesting.

I don't see where these classes can be a bad thing, and I'm not saying anyone is claiming that. Yet a common complaint on the forums about EMS is the poor expression of professionalism. Shirts untucked, slovenly appearance, lack of responsibility. Yet in the programs that don't allow that conduct, they seem to be viewed, nearly across the board as (my words of course), restrictive.

You seem shocked that the door was locked 5 minutes prior to class. Isn't promptness a large part of professionalism? Is there some benefit that I'm missing to students being allowed to disrupt class with their tardiness? We had one lady in my medic class that came to class 20-30 minutes late every day. This frustrated the hell out of me! She would pretend to skulk into class, as if she didn't want to be a bother, all the time making sure to draw maximum attention to herself. I would have locked her out. Perhaps there's something about 'free' thinking, non conformity, that makes for better learning. I'm being serious, this topic is truly confusing to me.

As well, you all seem to see a different version of 'student' than I've been exposed to. My experience is limited of course. Four campuses at two different community colleges, all in two towns of approx. 35-45,000 people. But it's uncommon for the kids (they are almost all kids) to come to class to learn. On my first day of physiology, after going over the class schedule, the teacher asked for questions. One cute little girl in the class asked “Why do women curl their toes when they have an orgasm?” (Not a bad question perhaps if asked in sincerity while studying the nervous system). Another asked, at a different time, “Is it true that if you put your finger up a man's butt and push on his prostate you can make him cum immediately?” Again, not a terrible question if asked appropriately, but not the kind of questions serious students ask for it's “shock” value.

Also, and I'm guessing of course, but perhaps med students have more invested in their education, thus are more able to police their own behavior. My prerequisites seem to have been seen as classes needed to “get passed” instead of be immersed in, for many/most of the students. I was considered some kind or relic because I had to pay for my classes. I'm not sure I went to school with more than, say 5% of my classmates that had a financial commitment to their education. Could this be a difference in medic and pre-med students?

The school from the above video, though showing much more PT than was required of us, was a pretty fair representation of my basic class. Again, I wouldn't take that route again at my age. But I didn't hate it. It was easily the most didactically focused class I've taken since returning to college. Isn't that a good thing?

The flip side. Assuming that the class allows for free thinking, why would you not want to see the medic showing up in the ambulance called by your family to have been to such a program? What is it about the flip flops and hole filled jeans that would create a better educated, more professional medic. If you had no information about a person that was to care for your family other than the video shown above, or a premed class video(exaggerating to make the point) with unshaven, barefoot, wrinkled clothes students, and you had to choose simply from the videos, is there something about the med class that would cause you to choose them?

I mean the above comments in all sincerity. I truly would have expected more “That is what EMS needs! Responsibility, discipline, and a commitment to professionalism.” comments. I'm curious as to what I'm missing?

Dwayne

[ptemt]

I feel that being in a class uniform puts you in a more appropriate mindset when running scenarios.

[JPINFV]

I find this pretty interesting.

I don't see where these classes can be a bad thing, and I'm not saying anyone is claiming that. Yet a common complaint on the forums about EMS is the poor expression of professionalism. Shirts untucked, slovenly appearance, lack of responsibility. Yet in the programs that don't allow that conduct, they seem to be viewed, nearly across the board as (my words of course), restrictive.

I don't know if it's because of my experience growing up, or going through a different educational setup, but I expect schools to teach me information and help develop critical thinking and evaluation skills instead of behavior. Honestly, I don't want my time wasted while an instructor teaches someone how to dress themself or how to be respectful, even in disagreement.

You seem shocked that the door was locked 5 minutes prior to class. Isn't promptness a large part of professionalism? Is there some benefit that I'm missing to students being allowed to disrupt class with their tardiness? We had one lady in my medic class that came to class 20-30 minutes late every day. This frustrated the hell out of me! She would pretend to skulk into class, as if she didn't want to be a bother, all the time making sure to draw maximum attention to herself. I would have locked her out. Perhaps there's something about 'free' thinking, non conformity, that makes for better learning. I'm being serious, this topic is truly confusing to me.

If a class is supposed to start at noon, start it at noon. If it's supposed to start at 11:55, start it at 11:55. That's different than expecting someone to arrive at 11:55 and sit around for 5 minutes chit chatting or otherwise till the class starts. I can see, however, how late arrivals could pose more of a distraction for a class room enviroment vs a lecture hall enviroment, and I respect that. Requiring everyone to arrive 5 minutes early, though, is not the answer.

As well, you all seem to see a different version of 'student' than I've been exposed to. My experience is limited of course. Four campuses at two different community colleges, all in two towns of approx. 35-45,000 people. But it's uncommon for the kids (they are almost all kids) to come to class to learn. On my first day of physiology, after going over the class schedule, the teacher asked for questions. One cute little girl in the class asked “Why do women curl their toes when they have an orgasm?” (Not a bad question perhaps if asked in sincerity while studying the nervous system). Another asked, at a different time, “Is it true that if you put your finger up a man's butt and push on his prostate you can make him cum immediately?” Again, not a terrible question if asked appropriately, but not the kind of questions serious students ask for it's “shock” value.

I will admit that my experience is limited too. I've never attended a community college (ignoring EMT refresher course). It might have to do with admission standards (anyone can enroll in a comunity college) that acts to filiter the student population that I've been exposed too. Similarly, you aren't going to get people paying 10-30k/year plus living expense through loans to go to class and waste time. Sure, people get giggly over some of the subject matter (the profs aren't helping at times, but that makes it interesting and it doesn't detract enough time to impact the educational experience. In times it enhances it). Due to that, I find the sort of paramilitary education (and company organization. All the senior management people at my last company wore military rank lapel pins. I still laugh at that) just a little queer.

Also, and I'm guessing of course, but perhaps med students have more invested in their education, thus are more able to police their own behavior. My prerequisites seem to have been seen as classes needed to “get passed” instead of be immersed in, for many/most of the students. I was considered some kind or relic because I had to pay for my classes. I'm not sure I went to school with more than, say 5% of my classmates that had a financial commitment to their education. Could this be a difference in medic and pre-med students?

Point taken.

The school from the above video, though showing much more PT than was required of us, was a pretty fair representation of my basic class. Again, I wouldn't take that route again at my age. But I didn't hate it. It was easily the most didactically focused class I've taken since returning to college. Isn't that a good thing?

Being a tad out of shape, I don't think I can argue with a little PT. Marching around with flags, on the other hand, eludes me as something that would assist a person's entrance to paramedicine. This isn't the military where there is a need to develop a commitment to a soldiers unit and the such. Just as it isn't a provider's duty to take any command or order as gospel and not question it unless it was completely immoral. Similarly, as with the above class (my company was involved with their basic program's ambulance clinicals), I fail to see the need to have patches, epaulets, and the rest of the pomp and cirmcumstance that goes with a paramilitary education system (I view paramilitary style education as a complete package).

The flip side. Assuming that the class allows for free thinking, why would you not want to see the medic showing up in the ambulance called by your family to have been to such a program? What is it about the flip flops and hole filled jeans that would create a better educated, more professional medic. If you had no information about a person that was to care for your family other than the video shown above, or a premed class video(exaggerating to make the point) with unshaven, barefoot, wrinkled clothes students, and you had to choose simply from the videos, is there something about the med class that would cause you to choose them?

The problem is that I fail to see how the clothes I wear in lecture affects how I learn, and thus how I care for my patients. I don't believe that either necessarily creates a better end product, but I can see a more regimented style pushing away students used to a more relaxed system. Afterall, why should I dress up more for a paramedic teaching a class than I would when a MD or PhD is teaching a class?

I mean the above comments in all sincerity. I truly would have expected more “That is what EMS needs! Responsibility, discipline, and a commitment to professionalism.” comments. I'm curious as to what I'm missing?

Dwayne

Similarly, I'm curious as to what part of the magic formula EMS is missing that other health care fields aren't that forces EMS to take this measure to [poorly] weed out the trash? Would moving paramedic programs to lower tiered state universities (for people familiar with California, by lower tier I'm thinking about California State vs University of California) and out of community colleges help to weed out people who have no busniess in health care?

[kristo]

Healthcare professionals should look and act professionally when around patients or even the general public. This inspires trust and enhances the comfort their presence offers to people who need it (i.e. the patients).

That said, there's a time and a place for teaching professional appearance. We have lectures/seminars/labs to teach us theory and clinicals to teach us the practical stuff, which includes the proper look and behaviour around patients.

This means that I dress comfortably in school, except in labs, where I have to wear a white coat, and during oral/practical exams, where I dress like an oncologist delivering bad news, i.e. black dress pants, white shirt, black tie. When the time comes for clinicals, I will do the whole "look professional" thing.