OOPS She was Dead When I Covered Her

[unknown]

I'm at a loss for words here...... hhhmmm How does one justify this? Triage??!!!

[Richard B the EMT]

I worked at least one cardiac arrest where, with consultation with the on line medical control doctor, the paramedics pronounced the patient as DOA. The last item to be disconnected from the man was the EKG.

Wait one!

The EKG now showed a shockable rhythm, which got him one. The Paramedics running the call re-contacted OLMC, and told the doctor, "Miracle workers here", and explained the pronounced patient was "back". We transported, and, an hour and a half later, when we brought in the next patient, the man was still beating with assisted breaths. Unknown if quality of life save, and I didn't get further information as to if the patient survived at all.

[spenac]

I have through the years decided way to many times that nothing could be done, that a code should not be worked. In the back of my mind even when in rigor or cooked to a crisp I always think but what if. I always go back and check. On MCI after I triage, I re-triage. In my area if someone says somebodys dead, another EMS professional verifys. It is difficult to walk away during triage knowing a person is dieing. In San Antonio I just can not believe that they could not get another ambulance. Hell they had 2 with 4 paramedics why did they not have at least 2 of them check her. If what the officer said is true about breathing why not err on side of caution and load her and go. We haul 3 and 4 patients often here, they sound as if they can only have 1 patient per ambulance.

It was cold so a peripheral pulse was not a good check. I hope more was done to check her. I am all for field termination of codes and not starting trauma codes, but apparently heart and lungs were still working unassisted. I feel for her family. I feel for the paramedics that must feel like hell with the what ifs.

I hope this never happens to me or any of you.

[robert gift]

Was the young woman wearing seat-belts?

If not, I assign much of the blame to her.

You don't needlessly place yourself in a condition where you make yourself vulnerable to others' mistakes.

I never took anyone's word and checked for myself, especially when the patient is so young and likely more resilient. Any question, I'd load and go and let the hospital decide.

Chief should have been more careful wth what he said.

Media will try to find something sensational in whatever you say.

I appreciate outspokenness and spontaneity but have learned to shut the f up.

Then speak with care and consideration.

[spenac]

Was the young woman wearing seat-belts?

If not, I assign much of the blame to her.

You don't needlessly place yourself in a condition where you make yourself vulnerable to others' mistakes.

I never took anyone's word and checked for myself, especially when the patient is so young and likely more resilient. Any question, I'd load and go and let the hospital decide.

Chief should have been more careful wth what he said.

Media will try to find something sensational in whatever you say.

I appreciate outspokenness and spontaneity but have learned to shut the f up.

Then speak with care and consideration.

I agree that each person must be accountable for their actions. In this case drunk driver is most at fault. But the paramedics and perhaps the EMS there are at fault as well. If police officer was first responder maybe he has fault for not assisting victim. Where does blame end and begin?

A question I have is why did the fire department not extricate? Even if dead she had to be removed for funeral home to take her. In my part of the world all bodys are removed so funeral home can come haul them away. Had she been extricated maybe more evidence of life would have been seen. But I am in small town America maybe not done that way in the city.

[Richard B the EMT]

A mention: A "Shot" type call in the street that I was on, a traumatic arrest secondary to several handgun bullets entering the head and torso, bleeding heavily from the mouth, with my BLS on scene, and ALS moments out. Bubbles in the blood, and my partner started CPR, as I radioed the ALS to enter the scene from a different direction due to my ambulance and the NYPD blocking the other, before joining in the CPR.

ALS arrives on scene, and one of the medics is demanding to know why CPR was started. My partner, even though he realized it was a hopeless case, told him it was because the patient was still breathing, if agonal.

General question: In your jurisdiction, if there is even agonal breathing, does not YOUR ops guide state BLS is to start CPR?

[spenac]

Just a side point based on cause of this wreck.

Everybody please pay attention, be safe over the holidays. Lots of idiots out there driving drunk. And please if you are drinking no driving, we have no excuse we have seen the results. One drink is to many.

[Lone Star]

I'm not dead yet.

*whacks JP on the top of the head* you are now!

[Britt207]

I'm not very smart, but the words Neglect and abandonment come to mind in this matter....How could you say "she'll die in a few minutes"..I thought our job was to prolong death?

Sure hope the personnel get slapped with a lawsuit...In my opnion its much needed.

[Dustdevil]

I'm not very smart, but the words Neglect and abandonment come to mind in this matter....How could you say "she'll die in a few minutes"..I thought our job was to prolong death?

Ummm... not when you have two medics for five patients. Google "triage".