EMS first for me

[MSDeltaFlt]

Let the cops place them into custody?!? Wait just a cotton-pickin-minute here. If you have a pt who is a danger to themselves and/or to others ESPECIALLY with a plan, they have lost their right to refuse treatment and transport. They need to be evaluated by a medical professional who is specially trained in psychological disorders. Period. Without question. End of discussion.

A doctor once told me, "When you are met with a crazy person, you have to ask yourself two questions: 'Are they crazy because they're sick, or are they crazy because they are crazy?'" Crazy because they're cick means chemical imbalance. It's medical. They're sick and need to see a doctor. They got to go the hospital. If they're crazy because they're crazy, they are "nucking futs". They are just plain crazy and need to see a psychiatrist. Still gotta go to the hospital. Either way, they're going to the hospital.

Usually I can get them to go easy. But make no mistake about it. If they don't want to go easy, I WILL put their faces on the floor, and they're going anyway. Besides it is a little therapeutic.

[spenac]

Let the cops place them into custody?!?

Usually I can get them to go easy. But make no mistake about it. If they don't want to go easy, I WILL put their faces on the floor, and they're going anyway. Besides it is a little therapeutic.

If you have a violent patient yes the cops put them in custody, they take em down. How stupid it would be for us to put them down on their face. Why is it therapeutic to beat up a mentally unstable person? You want to slam someone enter the cage and fight. Why risk injury and additional lawsuits. Cops jobs to take them down and restrain. Then evaluate and either transport in full restraints with a cop on board or if no immediate life threatening medical/trauma cause let the cops transport. If there is nothing we can do why are we tieing up resources?

[MSDeltaFlt]

If you have a violent patient yes the cops put them in custody, they take em down. How stupid it would be for us to put them down on their face. Why is it therapeutic to beat up a mentally unstable person? You want to slam someone enter the cage and fight. Why risk injury and additional lawsuits. Cops jobs to take them down and restrain. Then evaluate and either transport in full restraints with a cop on board or if no immediate life threatening medical/trauma cause let the cops transport. If there is nothing we can do why are we tieing up resources?

That's why God created Valium. Me, my partner, the cops on scene. Multiple people to put pt on their face and I also give a sedative. I never said anything about "beating anybody up. They need to see a doctor. Cops aren't medically trained. I'm the chief medical officer on scene which makes me the HMFIC, and I say they go with me. If you can prove that you are advocating for your patient and do no harm, you might get into a little trouble, but not punished.

[spenac]

That's why God created Valium. Me, my partner, the cops on scene. Multiple people to put pt on their face and I also give a sedative. I never said anything about "beating anybody up. They need to see a doctor. Cops aren't medically trained. I'm the chief medical officer on scene which makes me the HMFIC, and I say they go with me. If you can prove that you are advocating for your patient and do no harm, you might get into a little trouble, but not punished.

You clearly state it's therapeutic to slam the mentally disturbed person on their face. I don't ever feel refreshed for causing more harm to a person that has needs. While they may not need me and my ambulance they do need help from a mental health professional. Cops may not be medically "trained" but they are trained to take people down and are payed to do it, we are not. You as the "trained" , but I also hope educated medical person on scene are there for as needed medical care not slamming people for your own pleasure or "therapy", perhaps you need to stop by a mental health professionals office and discuss your feelings of needing to use violent actions as therapy.

[wrenEMT]

ok I have to say I have been swung at now 3 times by 3 different patients but I was quick enough to not get hit.. I have had a coworker manage to get a lil 90 yo woman that was very combative for some reason I haven't found out why.. but the lil old woman was able to fight so much they had to restrain her to a back board, only bad thing.. the 90 yo was strong enough to bend the back board damn near in half.. I will have to ask my coworker again what happened to get full details but I do know that a back board can be bent by a psych patient that is tiny and 90 yo...

[p3medic]

While fighting with people might be the cops job, properly restraining a psych patient falls into the realm of EMS, at least around here.

[Richard B the EMT]

I am going to argue a small point of semantics.

Per my usage of language, someone who is "in custody" is "Under Arrest", meaning they are going to jail, be read their Miranda Rights, and have a court date in a reasonable amount of time following.

Could, and would, you join me in using the phrase "In Protective Custody," which is not an arrest, but has the patient in restraints and transportation of some sort, under the guidance of the proper authority (read: the LEOs, in my jurisdiction) acting towards the benefit of the patient, to an ED, for that evaluation as to if they are having some chemically correctable altered mental status, or are truly in their own worlds. This usually implies the patient is, or potentially is, a danger to themselves, and/or others.

[spenac]

I am going to argue a small point of semantics.

Per my usage of language, someone who is "in custody" is "Under Arrest", meaning they are going to jail, be read their Miranda Rights, and have a court date in a reasonable amount of time following.

Could, and would, you join me in using the phrase "In Protective Custody," which is not an arrest, but has the patient in restraints and transportation of some sort, under the guidance of the proper authority (read: the LEOs, in my jurisdiction) acting towards the benefit of the patient, to an ED, for that evaluation as to if they are having some chemically correctable altered mental status, or are truly in their own worlds. This usually implies the patient is, or potentially is, a danger to themselves, and/or others.

Please consider my statements on the last few posts to be protective custody.

[Richard B the EMT]

Thank you, Spenac.

[MSDeltaFlt]

You clearly state it's therapeutic to slam the mentally disturbed person on their face. I don't ever feel refreshed for causing more harm to a person that has needs. While they may not need me and my ambulance they do need help from a mental health professional. Cops may not be medically "trained" but they are trained to take people down and are payed to do it, we are not. You as the "trained" , but I also hope educated medical person on scene are there for as needed medical care not slamming people for your own pleasure or "therapy", perhaps you need to stop by a mental health professionals office and discuss your feelings of needing to use violent actions as therapy.

"Putting" and "slamming" are two completely different words with two completely different definitions. I say what I mean and I mean what I say