Gangland Response

[captainstandup]

Being from semi-rural North Carolina and an area where EVERYONE is armed and not easily intimidated by thugs, I have never been exposed to gang violence or responded to those types of calls.

The culture and topography make our area much less inviting to those with bad intentions and there exists a sense of community that wouldn't tolerate outside trouble. When it occurs people here will respond with frightening violence and absolutely no restraint to gang intimidation. I believe this sense of community spans the court system and Law Enforcement to an extent that would make it particularly uncomfortable for gangs and would be very forgiving of locals protecting themselves.

I understand Gangs are simply another form of organized crime, with money and power being the motivating factor for the leadership, and a sense of identity for the gang members. I am curious about several things though:

1) Is there any meaningful effort in curbing this behavior or is it simply political BS and the areas where gang activity is high have simply been "written off?"

2) Does your response to these areas differ from normal scene safety?

3) Are there special considerations regarding treating these patients, ie: not damaging their "colors" or gang specific things that would provoke them to lash out against EMS?

4) Is there other information on gangs you feel would be helpful to A) EMS providers and B)Parents

[Medic2588]

Having worked in areas with Bloods, Crips, Latin Kings, MS13, and Pagans here's my take:

1. No appreciable effort was made to curb the rise of street gangs. There were special task forces and lots of billboards saying talk to your kids but no noticable improvement.

2. Our response only differed when the street gang units of the police received what they considered to be "credible" information that gangs were going through initiations that may involve random acts of violence of public safety individuals. No such acts were ever committed in my area. The other special difference was when certain gang territories were raided for drugs. In these cases, police were automatically dispatched with EMS to known gang areas (police were not normally dispatched with EMS).

3. The only special consideration is to treat everyone with the same level of respect, regardless of whether they are in a gang. Just as with anyone, if you cut someone's clothes without telling them first, they'll most likely be pissed. For the most part, its been my experience that gangmembers understand that EMS are not cops and that we have a job to do. If you talk to them with respect like you would want someone to talk to you, you get respect. The idea of "colors" is not that they have a special piece of clothing and that's the only piece of clothing they have. So if they lose a shirt, they probably have dozens more of the same color.

4. Special advice for EMS? See number 3.

Devin

[Asysin2leads]

Gang colors. Now there's an idea I haven't heard about since around about 1992. NYC, compared to other large cities, has less of a problem with gangs. There are a lot of theories why, but I credit routine foot patrols by the NYPD as a big part of it. You can't have guys on the street doing gang stuff if you have a police officer walking by every five minutes.

The key to dealing with gangs is simply to remember scene safety. If you don't feel safe, don't enter the scene.

You know, with out trying to start a fight, captain, I have to say you rhetoric about sense of community and responding with frightening violence sounds pretty much the type of behavior that gangs thrive on. They're all obsessed with community and/or race, their families, and "protecting" them. They all believe that the only reason other people don't do what they do is because they are too "weak" to stand up for what they believe is right.

So if you really want to understand gangs, all you have to is look in the mirror.

[AnthonyM83]

There are constant efforts from the police departments out there. I've been told by PD that there were task forces out with over 30 unmarked and undercover cars in one night for one city of 9 sq. mi. plus regular patrol. LAPD has been cracking down on gangs a lot. Their main system seems to be saturating neighborhoods with pedestrian and vehicle stops and filling out Field Interview cards to get pictures and info of people and also find out what's the latest "movements" are from the locals. Seems to be working since crime rat'es been steadily going down.

In general no, but certain hot spots, you just keep your wits about you more, you don't screw around at all, you lock everything. Some might wear their blue brush jackets just to be identified as EMS, while others don't want them so they don't stand out with the reflectors.

No special considerations. If anything, I see FD being a bit tougher and curter with them. In a way, FD/EMS ends up acting as it's own protective gang and a lot of FFs who work those areas also grew up in similar environments.

Here's a taste a scene right out of gangland...one of the projects in LA:

Click on Video 1 for taste of how some of our GSW calls often go:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-11180...9&cset=true

[captainstandup]

My primary objective is to get a sense of what its like to live and work in an area where these parasites are common. I also want to gain understanding of the gang culture. I offered the opening post to the thread to provide insight into the culture where I live, not to provoke an argument.

Perhaps Asysin2leads is right and I do need to look in the mirror. I suppose it is a matter of perspective but the folks I referred to differ from gangs in many ways. Unlike gang members these people are hard working honest people that would rather die than steal from others or harm someone without provocation. They don't use drugs, sell drugs aren't involved in prostitution or racketeering and I don't believe a single one of them has ever carjacked anyone. These folks are at work every day, pay their bills and taxes, hunt and fish and enjoy life without bothering another person. Many are highly educated and some are not and; are of meager means. They will however, never walk away from a fight, and they have virtually no concept of fear when it comes to defending those they love.

"Sidebar"

In the "racism" thread I threw some ugly remarks at Asysin2leads which were unnecessary and childish. I was wrong for making comments in that thread that were personal against him. He is obviously very bright and professional and apparently shares the same passion for spirited discussion that I do. Thats the reason he "said he didn't want to start a fight" I read everything he posts on EMT City and agree with him 99.8% of the time.

[Medic2588]

Capt, Asysin touched upon a common theme with gangs nowadays, even though he might not have meant to.

There is a common misconception (I'll say at least on the East Coast) of "colors." Many gangs out this way have abandoned the classic display of clothing of a particular color. Why? Well, for one reason, as Asys touched, you won't notice them as much. This could be to not stand out to rivals or to law enforcement. Areas of NYC probably has as much problems with gangs as anywhere else, its just not something that is overtly obvious.

Another trend is to dress is a similar fashion (I've heard police refer to it as "the uniform"). In my areas, this means dressing in oversized plain white t-shirts, baggy blue jeans, not descript sneakers, and a white skull cap. Why? Probably so that it makes it harder to identify someone in commission of a crime or to reduce how much you stand out to rivals.

Gangs are identified by the way they wear their clothing (certain side pant leg rolled up means one gang, etc) and by their tattoos.

Devin

[Just Plain Ruff]

Capt, Asysin touched upon a common theme with gangs nowadays, even though he might not have meant to.

There is a common misconception (I'll say at least on the East Coast) of "colors." Many gangs out this way have abandoned the classic display of clothing of a particular color. Why? Well, for one reason, as Asys touched, you won't notice them as much. This could be to not stand out to rivals or to law enforcement. Areas of NYC probably has as much problems with gangs as anywhere else, its just not something that is overtly obvious.

Another trend is to dress is a similar fashion (I've heard police refer to it as "the uniform"). In my areas, this means dressing in oversized plain white t-shirts, baggy blue jeans, not descript sneakers, and a white skull cap. Why? Probably so that it makes it harder to identify someone in commission of a crime or to reduce how much you stand out to rivals.

Gangs are identified by the way they wear their clothing (certain side pant leg rolled up means one gang, etc) and by their tattoos.

Devin

Actually, might the going away from the wearing of a specific color have been a learned response over time. You have the crips which are red I believe. Doesnt' that make them a more easy target and the law of natural selection would be that the strongest survive. So if you are a crip and you are wearing your color doesn't that make you standout and pretty much say "Here I am, I'm a crip, shoot me"?

Might they have learned that they have a much higher survival rate if you aren't wearing a specific color that stands you out of a crowd and says TARGET!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Eydawn]

Crips are/were blue, Bloods are/were red. I've still seen the colors thing in Denver, at least I used to when I was still in high school. Tends to be more subtle, like a bandana or color band around the bottom of a pant leg, rather than being a certain color shirt.

How do you operate in a gang territory? Just like you would in any other territory... trust your gut and don't enter without PD if you're not comfortable with what's going on around you. Treat your patients the same, just have a higher index of suspicion for stab wounds, needles in the pocket etc. Don't act scared; that makes them think they have an edge over you! Keep your head up, and your confidence going and you probably won't have a problem. Keep your radar on! Like I said... just like anywhere else..

My favorite gang experience was when a bunch of inner city kids came up to my camp and scrawled a "north side" sign on one of my tents. Thanks, guys!

The funny part was, I went out there to check it out, and the leaders were like "sorry, they tagged the tent..." and I said "Oh. North side. Great... wish the kids would leave this stuff at home." The looks on their faces were priceless.... it was to the effect of "How in the hell does the white chick know what a North side sign is?" See, thing is, I grew up in the inner city... so I got well acquainted with it. It was pretty funny though!

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[mediccjh]

Situational awareness.

Never have your exit blocked. When you enter a residence, instruct the people to leave the doors unlocked; they usually do (and it's easier for help to walk through than try to break down the door if you need them).

Like Asys said, respect. Treat them with respect, and most of the times they will treat you back. Even with that, you still need to watch your back.

Go in, get your patient, bring them to the back of the bus, then lock the doors and start your treatment. If it gets hot, transport, park a few blocks away, then start going to work.