Uncertified people on the ambulance.

[JakeEMTP]

I've dealt with this too, the girl that I had the problem with was, 14

:shock:

[Eyegor]

If your agency is allowing people on your truck that you feel are not qualified, you may not be able to put a halt to the practice. What you can do is take responsibility for your crew. Get them up to speed so they are not a danger to you or anyone else and eventually so they are actually helpful. If your team can't support you, make sure they can or find yourself a new team.

[JPINFV]

I agree with the above posters. What sort of uncertified people are we talking about? Ride alongs (students, people interested in the field, documentary crews (Discovery Channel's Paramedics, for example) or stake holders (government officials)? Non-EMT drivers (provided they can legally drive the ambulance)? The owner's non-certified crew chief son?

I've dealt with this too, the girl that I had the problem with was, 14 and wouldn't let anyone else run ems calls as what we call here attendants,

That's nice. That 14 year old would be sitting on the side of the road waiting for her parents if she pulled that crud with me.

[kyle308]

MANY years ago, it wasn't unheard of to have one EMT and one non-certified driver. I know a lot of privates worked around that to keep over-head down. We had one "boss" that would send two people out if it seemed like it was a routine or crock call, but if it turned out to be an actual emergency they would radio in and send out the second certified person and meet them either at the scene or up the road from the hospital so it would look like there had been two certs. on board. It's amazing how things use to be ran and thank God it has changed.

*cough* that many years ago thing is still around AKA: my ambulance service..We uually have a non-certified driver and an EMT and Paramedic working in the back. I dont agree with it completely but hey I'm 16 and just a rider there WHO is a certified first responder so i do touch patients and help out. But when im older i think ill try to change that whole non-certified driver thing, and maybe even try to make us a paid service. The whole volutneer thing just isnt working well anymore.

[Just Plain Ruff]

would be nice if the original poster would respond back to this thread.

If there is an uncertified and unqualified person on the truck then there better be a good reason for it if you want to be in my ambulance.

Will I allow them to help - not on my license I won't.

But if we are talking about nurses or politicians (they really don't belong on the ambulance unless you are trying to get funding from that said politician).

Media personnel - NOPE NO NO NO NO especially not with a camera or tape recorder. Did I mention the word NO FREAKIN WAY!!!! WE all know what happens when you let a reporter get within 200 feet of you trying to take care of a patient or even when they try to report the news on a benign subject.

But in the end, you cannot fight management and if they want someoen on the truck with you then you are pretty much stuck with them.

But I do like the requirements that were set out in a previous reply to this thread. If they don't have the minimums then they don't get in.

[Jess]

I don't see a problem with ride-alongs if they don't actually do anything. Is that what your talking bout? Legally I don't understand how they would be allowed to participate.

[align=left:562424421c]First off, are we speaking of EMT Student Ride alongs or just people who want to sign up to ride along because they *Think* they have an interest in the field, but yet are not enrolled in a class?

Second, If this is meant in the context that I think it is, why should EMT Student ride alongs not be allowed to do anything? I don't know about you, but that was part of my training!

I know of many students that perhaps went too far with things and royally messed up and we're simply kicked off the truck, Simple as that! That 14 yr old mentioned in the earlier post would not have made it 5 minutes on any truck here. You go In there with a bad attitude and thick skull and it wont fly. We had similar criteria somewhat alike what 4cmk6 mentioned earlier, that had to be met before we were even allowed to step foot on an ambulance. I never boarded a truck without having the ambition to learn. I knew the crew pretty well so I felt comfortable saying "I want to learn, TEACH ME!" lol! They did excellent! I know thats where a few of my classmates got in trouble is they walked on with this attitude like they knew it all and would do everything they could to prove the paramedic or EMT that his thinking was wrong. If I saw something that I wasn't sure of or thats not how i was taught to do something, I would wait till the call was over and we were heading back to post to ask the paramedic to share some knowledge with me. "Is there a difference in doing this way versus that way?" There is usually a method to their madness! I'm amazed at how much I learned and how willing they were to work with me!

For my EMT-B Ride time, I had state issued paperwork that I gave to the paramedic before shift that had a list of basic skills I was to complete on each ride shift. It had 2 category's, Skills I actually completed, and skills I witnessed. The paramedic and other EMT on board would initial and give a small tally mark for however many times I completed a skill. This sheet was turned into the state and becomes part of my record of proof that I am competent enough to complete the skills of an EMT Basic, to prove that I actually applied what I learned in class to the field, It also gave a huge hint to the state that my instructor was indeed doing his job well and lastly it graded the crew that i rode with on how well they handle students so that the company knows that they can put students with that crew in the future.

I Had to do at least 10 pt assessments, 10 call ins, 10 blood pressures and the list goes on and on. pretty much had to perform each skill at least 10 times per 12 hour shift, which 10 was actually the minimum requirement. There was absolutely no reason why I couldn't complete 10 of each basic skill. By the end of the shift, I had completed a lot more than 10 of every skill. I was in a very large city and it was not unusual to run about 20 calls a shift. Only needed 60 hours of ride time but I ended up scheduling more for my own learning experience. So by the time all was said and done, I ended up completing 96 hours of ride time in a month and a half and two 12 hour shifts in the ED with just one week left in the class.

Included with the paperwork was a couple pages worth of comments. The Crews I rode with left excellent comments about my capabilities, my logics on things, and my overall performance. By the time my ride shift was over, I felt confident in myself and of my abilities to do this job. Not overly confident to the point of cockiness, but enough to where I told myself, "This is the career for me!" and could prove myself to anyone that asked. But my biggest learning experience of all with this field and any field for that matter is, You never ever stop learning. Thats what I like, everyday being a learning experience. You learn by what you do, you do because of what you learned.

I'm sorry if this sounded like a rambling post, but I've seen a lot of peoples input on this topic and just not only wanted to give my input, but also my experiences as being an EMT-B student (which in my opinion we're all students because we never stop learning!) as well as a bit of background of how our EMT-Basic class and ride alongs are handled here. That not just any person is allowed on the ambulance. Education is required, Criteria is to be met, its not all to easy but I must say It is all well worth it. Between the folks here and the folks I did my ride ride alongs with as well as the patients I cared for, I learned a lot and gained a lot in not only my knowledge base of EMS but also in maturity, character and overall wellbeing. I hope to one day be able to share with someone to teach and help them the way you people have taught and helped me. Everyone stay safe out there! *Steps off her soapbox* [/align:562424421c]

[larry 1745]

good one jesse, i only wished i could of done that with my class but the school would not allow it because of the insurance and the director of EMS was gonna go and buy an ambulance at his own expense and do ride alongs for the students, but the state shot it down because of all the BS involved in getting it started

[Lone Star]

I'm not risking MY license, reptation and credibility by having an explorer, junior emt, or other 'tag-along' in my truck!

In Michgan, the higher license takes the heat. So even if I have a MFR (Medical First Responder) on the truck with me, its MY license on the line if something goes sour.

It's always been my stance, that if you want to ride in the back of the rig, whether you attend or not, you had better be either the patient, or the family member. Either way, I'm either working on you, or you sit there with your mittens in your pockets and stay out of my way!

I don't agree with the 'non certified ambulance driver' as well. If I need help, I want a partner that is able to pull off to the side of the road, and jump in after contacting either the company or med control for me!

[captainstandup]

Contrary to popular belief in some areas, EMS is a service industry and not a club. We have a legal, moral and ethical responsibility to work efficiently, competently, safely,and clearly we have a federally decreed responsibility to maintain privacy. Uncertified people with no reason to be in the patient care environment present a myriad of risks including 1) Risk of violating the patients right to privacy 2) Risk of interfering with patient care and potentially resulting in harm 3) Risk of exposure to blood borne pathogens 4) Risk of being involved in an MVC 5) Risk inherent to the rescue / EMS scene 6) Risk of having their ass kicked of they in any manner harm, endanger, insult, offend, violate the privacy of or in any manner bother my patient 7) Risk of being left on a street corner in the hood.

All jokes aside, if there is no valid reason for someone to be riding along then they must be prevented from doing so. Its the responsibility of the highest credentialed provider to set forth the barriers and establish the overall tone for a given patient care situation. This must be backed up with clear policies regarding riders and associated privacy / environment of care issues.

[JPINFV]

Trying to stir the pot a bit here.

Do you (people against all non-student/non-certified riders) also disagree with programs such as Discovery Channel's Paramedic series?