Can first responder units start IV locks?

[pacman]

I, personally, think this whole thing is a bit ridiculous. :shock:

I'm there with ya! I think someone is just trying to mess with us.

[DwayneEMTP]

All-

Please bear in mind, I am a new nursing student and am wondering the benefits of starting an IV lock. Yes I know what an IV lock is, and I do not see what benefit that would provide for the patient besides an increased risk of infection. I do, in a small way, understand if you have a paramedic unit a few minutes away and the patient will need immediate drugs. Even in a scenario such as that, it does not take that long to start an IV.

On another note, as Viki stated "I promise that anyone starting IV's will be experienced at it." Will you be doing the training for the department to ensure that everyone starting an IV will be experienced? In my understanding, when a protocol is written up and approved it is for the general membership of a department, not for specific people. Therefore, if you get a protocol approved for your RN's and EMT-I's to start IV locks, then everyone covered by that protocol will be allowed to perform that skill. Since you have promised to make certain that everyone who starts the IV will be experienced, I certainly hope you understand what you are getting your self into.

It is also my understanding that EMT-I's (87 and 99) are allowed to start IV's peripherally, so I am not sure how they are being incorporated into your protocol. Unless your state varies in that sense.

I apologize for the edit of this post, but it was only after I re-read some of the previous posts that I decided to add to my message. Again, I apologize.

---I am a student and my comments and replies should be taken as such and not that of a practicing medical provider. My words and thoughts are my own and do not reflect the views or opinions of the educational institute I am associated with nor that of my fire department.---

See, I knew that being from Colorado you were bound to be a peach! Great post!

Therefore, if you get a protocol approved for your RN's and EMT-I's to start IV locks, then everyone covered by that protocol will be allowed to perform that skill.

I could be wrong, but I don't believe that's completely true. For example, and this is hearsay, I believe with AMR Pueblo (Perhaps others as well) to perfom RSI you must have one year as a 911 medic, take a class, and then be tested directly by the medical director. You are still the same class of medic (I believe) but have been given an additional skill individually. (Again, someone told me this, I haven't researched or made any attempt to verify it, but I believe it came from a credible source).

Also, no worries on the edit as long as you note any content or context changes that are likely to make those that post after you look like boneheads...

Again, welcome.

[co_student_87]

Thank you for the kind welcome. I did not see any mention in vickys post about that situation you mentioned. I do not wish to step on toes or "call anyone out" just asking what I see valid questions. I hope to figure out/help vickey with her questions, only wish I knew and understood more about EMS beyond my area.

---I am a student and my comments and replies should be taken as such and not that of a practicing medical provider. My words and thoughts are my own and do not reflect the views or opinions of the educational institute I am associated with nor that of my fire department.---

[DwayneEMTP]

Thank you for the kind welcome. I did not see any mention in vickys post about that situation you mentioned. I do not wish to step on toes or "call anyone out" just asking what I see valid questions. I hope to figure out/help vickey with her questions, only wish I knew and understood more about EMS beyond my area.

---I am a student and my comments and replies should be taken as such and not that of a practicing medical provider. My words and thoughts are my own and do not reflect the views or opinions of the educational institute I am associated with nor that of my fire department.---

I thought your post addressed her's perfectly! I didn't think you were calling her out. I think you'll find that much of the learning here happens during the debates.

Your post was smart and succinct. Hell, after you've been here a bit you won't feel your post was productive unless someone disagrees with you!

Dwayne

[Michael]

Hell, after you've been here a bit you won't feel your post was productive unless someone disagrees with you!

That's not always true. :wink:

[akroeze]

That's not always true. :wink:

Yes it is! How DARE you suggest otherwise?!?!!!!1111oneoneone

[spenac]

Yes it is! How DARE you suggest otherwise?!?!!!!1111oneoneone

I refuse to believe that.

[akroeze]

I refuse to believe that.

[Spock]

Great picture!

I agree with others in that I don't see much value in starting a saline lock. Vicki: You might be more valuable to your patients by focusing on AED use and whatever airway interventions Kansas allows for EMT's. Good CPR and an AED will benefit your cardiac arrest patients the most.

I looked at the website ventmedic mentioned which lists the credentials of 50 states and territories. The list for Pennsylvania was incomplete in that it didn't list PHRN's or prehospital MD's. Not sure why PA didn't provide the most accurate information.

Live long and prosper.

Spock

[Arkymedic]

Great picture!

I agree with others in that I don't see much value in starting a saline lock. Vicki: You might be more valuable to your patients by focusing on AED use and whatever airway interventions Kansas allows for EMT's. Good CPR and an AED will benefit your cardiac arrest patients the most.

I looked at the website ventmedic mentioned which lists the credentials of 50 states and territories. The list for Pennsylvania was incomplete in that it didn't list PHRN's or prehospital MD's. Not sure why PA didn't provide the most accurate information.

Live long and prosper.

Spock

I agree. Personally looking at the big picture a saline lock is one of the last things to worry about especially for 1st Responder agencies. So you place a heplock and then what? Heplock is going to save maybe 2-5 min? If it is a critical pt then its ABCs and IV later. As a 1st Responder agency you cannot perform any IV meds so what would be the value to ALS but especially the patient? If its a code the CPR and bagging is the primary focus. If it's trauma a heplock is useless as well without fluid. With AMS, Altered LOC, Diabetics, etc this has minimal value. The promise that was made that it is only going to be "experience" providers starting them is discrimination and individual protocols as well. If I joined your squad and was a new EMT-I, EMT-IV, or RN you are going to tell me that I can not start a heplock but you and your other squad member can? I do not think so. I think the EMS office in KS was a little off the path here... This is just my personal opinion though.