Florida Crash Photos Could Cost Chief Job

[VentMedic]

What is a patient's expectation of privacy at scene? Do you give respect to a patient's privacy when assessing in public view or even in their home? Should the patient be photographed or videotaped at scene by EMS/FD? I've seen many action shots published in various magazines and used at trade conferences for photo contests. I've often wondered how many of the patients realized they were being filmed or photographed and that they would be viewed by thousands. If a photograph is taken "in plain public view", is it a privacy issue?

Florida Crash Photos Could Cost Chief Job

http://www.local6.com/news/14986331/detail.html

http://www.emsresponder.com/article/articl...n=1&id=6816

Story by local6.com

UMATILLA, Fla. --

A suspended Central Florida fire chief could lose his job over e-mailed photos from a crash scene that included at least one image of a female victim's exposed breasts.

Shirk snapped photos of the woman and then e-mailed them to surrounding fire departments, Local 6's Charnel Wright reported.

Umatilla City Manager Glenn Irby said the woman, who later died, had her privacy rights violated.

"In passing that information along to others that had nothing to do with the emergency rescue, that becomes to me a moral issue," Irby said. "Distasteful, if you will."

[firedoc5]

This had been a topic in the past in my old dept. There should be some discretion while taking pictures. More so if those pictures are to be circulated or published. Also, was he posting the pics from a professional stand point, or for kicks & giggles or amusement?

[Scaramedic]

Dead people have no privacy rights. How many times does this damn issue come up? Patient privacy only applies to the living. Scatter brained politicians and lawyers seem to forget this whenever something like this comes up. Was it tasteless yes, illegal no.

[JPINFV]

A person in public have no right to expect privacy. I don't see any of the photographers going to jail because they were taking picture of Britney Spears being loaded into the ambulance in 4 point restraints (you can see a soft restraint on her leg in one of the pictures).

There are are three problems with this that I see. First, you only need so many pictures for "educational" use. They don't need to be necessarily the last accident to happen. So, unless there was something completely special about this specific accident then there was no reason to take the pictures.

Second, he emailed them out. Emailed pictures have a way of making it online. A perfect example would be an accident that happened in Southern California a few years ago (link goes to Snopes article and local newspaper article on the fallout of the pictures being leaked). The accident itself was rather nasty (18 year old + daddy's Porsh (without his permission and which she had never driven before) + 100+MPH + toll booth = funeral) and someone from the high way patrol (which, rather understandably TOOK pictures as part of the investigation) leaked the pictures illegally. It might be understandable if he wasn't a member of an emergency response agency, since this was in public, but he is. Now that he has released those pictures to other agencies, his ability to control said pictures is essentially nil.

Third, while we are involved in the medical field and should be able to stifle that giggle over seeing a a nipple, society might not. For the sake of the patient's dignity, he should have at least tried to blur the nipple.

[VentMedic]

Dead people have no privacy rights. How many times does this damn issue come up? Patient privacy only applies to the living. Scatter brained politicians and lawyers seem to forget this whenever something like this comes up. Was it tasteless yes, illegal no.

She was alive when the photos were taken. Would you want your dead loved one's photos available on the internet or hanging in some conference center?

Remember this recent news story?

http://www.emsdailynews.com/?p=395

Paramedic gets punched out then fired after posting photos of fatal crash onlineAugust 24th, 2007

Paramedic took cell phone pictures of crash that killed teenager, posted one online and drew the wrath of teen’s family and his employer

A Kentucky paramedic has been fired after he posted photographs of a car crash online which led to a violent confrontation with the victim�s family.

John Snow worked as a paramedic with the Clinton-Hickman County ambulance service for 10 years. He was under investigation by the Kentucky Board of Emergency Management Service for some online postings but continued to work because the service couldn�t afford to suspend him with pay. On May 20, 2007, Snow attended a car accident where a 16-year-old boy was killed. While at the scene, Snow took photos of the crash with his cell phone. He later posted a photo on the website MySpace.com along with a blog about his paramedic work.

[p3medic]

Its completely inappropriate. If there was a particular injury pattern or learning opportunity, that didn't reveal the patient identity, I might buy it, but breasts flapping in the breeze pinned in a car? He's an idiot, and deserves whats coming, IMHO.

[Richard B the EMT]

I now opine:

Perhaps dead people have no expectation of privacy, even if they die in some manner of spectacle, However, think of their survivors.

Source not remembered, but I recall a recent event where a teenage girl died in a car crash, and somebody, or a group of somebodies, is tormenting the parents by repeatedly e-mailing pictures of the gory wreck to them.

I recall a discussion I was in, when cell-phones with cameras first were introduced, about taking pictures of car crashes, including patient extrication and/or disentanglements. The only positive thing mentioned was, the pictures of the vehicle damage potentially could give the ED Doctors a better idea of the method and extent of the injuries gotten in the crash.

[Scaramedic]

What about these photos?

Both photos won the Pulitzer Prize. Both show dead or injured human beings (who will die) and both are available on the web. The photos tell a story and are important to be shown to others. I do not know the motive behind the photos this guy took, if he was just trying to show booby then he needs to go. The story says ONE image showed her breasts, if all photos showed her breast then I would expect he was being a perv. If only one out of numerous photos showed her exposed breast then I tend to think he was showing his cohorts a bad accident.

It's funny that the media and government can intrude more and more into our lives but health care employees are constantly being nailed for things you can see on the six o'clock news all because of HIPAA paranoia.

Here is HIPAA in a nutshell...

The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) was enacted by the U.S. Congress in 1996.

According to the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) website, Title I of HIPAA protects health insurance coverage for workers and their families when they change or lose their jobs.

Title II of HIPAA, the Administrative Simplification (AS) provisions, requires the establishment of national standards for electronic health care transactions and national identifiers for providers, health insurance plans, and employers.

The AS provisions also address the security and privacy of health data. The standards are meant to improve the efficiency and effectiveness of the nation's health care system by encouraging the widespread use of electronic data interchange in the US health care system.

One of the reasons they created this law in the first place is because hospitals were selling patient DATA to various companies, not because professionals were taking accident scene photos. Now everything revolving around a patient is considered HIPAA protected and it's not. Like usual we have taken things too far.

And yes those photos at conferences are important, they are used for the education of professionals in the business of health care. Where does it stop? Do we not allow third riders? Some EMS programs have done just that. Do we stop providing pictures in textbooks? Much of learning any type of Medicine is visual and accident photos can be very important. I would rather have my loved one in a textbook than plastered on the front page of the daily fish wrapper.

[Richard B the EMT]

You just reminded me of a call I was on.

A woman was having her heavy bracelets removed, by NYPD, with a K-12 saw, due to burns from a multi-alarm fire, from which my VAC was going to transport said woman to a burn center. A press corps "videographer" was almost standing on the ambulance bumper, filming.

Due to fire fighters and Cops jumping in and out of the ambulance, while the cutting off of the jewelry was in progress, we couldn't close the doors, which I am sure someone might have said.

I tapped him on the shoulder, and I said, "You got me in a problem, here. You have the right to film her, as a news story, but I want to protect the woman's privacy. Can you back up a bit?"

Smiles and handshakes. "Yes". Filming continued from 30 foot back.

[VentMedic]

What about these photos?

[both photos won the Pulitzer Prize. Both show dead or injured human beings (who will die) and both are available on the web. The photos tell a story and are important to be shown to others.

And yes those photos at conferences are important, they are used for the education of professionals in the business of health care. Where does it stop? Do we not allow third riders? Some EMS programs have done just that. Do we stop providing pictures in textbooks? Much of learning any type of Medicine is visual and accident photos can be very important. I would rather have my loved one in a textbook than plastered on the front page of the daily fish wrapper.

If photos are sold for profit and the faces are recognizable, then a model release form may be needed from the person or next of kin.

If a photo is used in a textbook which is considered commercial then a model release form is needed.

The photos at conferences are usually more for "entertainment" than educational purposes since it is usually just a contest for best photo based on "oohhh and aahhh" or Wow! without any educational narration. Since they are not intended to be sold or used for profit, a model release is usually not needed.

The photos used by lecturers usually have the faces blurred.

When our physicians use photos from the patients in our teaching hospital, they will blur the faces but will also inform the family complete with a consent form that they want to use photos and information from the patient for teaching purposes or if they want to publish specific data.

http://www.asmp.org/commerce/legal/release...outReleases.php