A SWAT Team instead of an RMA

[Michael]

[web:2b02a8b68c]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080108/ap_on_re_us/medical_raid[/web:2b02a8b68c]

[Eydawn]

Ah jeeze, come on... I don't even know what to say to this one. Yeah, it sucks that parents can refuse care for their children, but social services is so freakin' overreactive that it's not even funny. Sending a SWAT team for a "sluggish pupil" and a "hematoma" on the word of a caseworker? Helllllll no... unless they can prove they've got some medical or EMS background to justify what they've seen. It was probably a sleepy kid and a goose egg.

*sighs* why are all the crazies in Colorado?

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[firedoc5]

I could see the concern, but sounds like things were taken to the extreme.

We had a toddler struck by a car. Nothing appeared serious, mostly abrasions and bruises. But he did need to be checked out. The mother absolutely refused any kind of treatment or transport. She said all he needed was prayer and that he'd be OK. We explained the possibility of head injury or internal injuries, but she still refused. I told her that I too was a christian and said that God uses doctors for the sick and injured. Luckily her minister arrived. I believe he lived right next door. He about blew a gasket and sat her strait. The boy was finally transported by private vehicle. Later on we discussed how if she still refused we would have had to call in DCFS. I would've hated to do it, but the priority was the child.

[spenac]

Yeah, it sucks that parents can refuse care for their children, Wendy

CO EMT-B

Why does it suck that parents can chose what treatment if any for their children? No one will tell me how to raise my kids or what treatments. That is not the governments business. The courts have ruled numerous times it is the parents right to choose type of care. It is just like me getting injured if I tell you no I don't want treatment you have no right to touch me. This pisses me off. Nobody has the right to force unwanted medical care. Next you'll tell me that swat raided a house because parents took the kids to a different church. Things are out of hand. Was there any previous reports of neglect or abuse? Just seeing an injury and being told no treatment wanted is not grounds to go to child services. And definitely not for SWAT. See thread from a few months back for discussion of what could have happened with swat entry.

I suspect somebody just hit the lottery when they hire a lawyer and sue everybody involved.

[spenac]

[web:1972cd9e17]http://www.postindependent.com/article/20080108/VALLEYNEWS/248366321[/web:1972cd9e17]

http://www.postindependent.com/article/200...YNEWS/248366321

[spenac]

[web:7b46482928]http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=67542[/web:7b46482928]

http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=67542

[Michael]

More here.

Discussed here.

[spenac]

The first responder that forced their way into the house needs to lose their job. Even if you suspect abuse you are not a cop and have no business making a raid and trying to force care. This confirms to me to many idiots have patches and should not be allowed in EMS. I may have to cave on my opinion that EMS should be allowed to deny transports as this idiot has no business deciding anything.

[Eydawn]

If you have an ignorant parent who is refusing care for an injury that is potentially or obviously life-threatening for their child, yes, THAT SUCKS. Because they have the legal right to refuse care that could mean the difference between a permanently damaged or dead child and a healthy one. Not everyone is intelligent enough to be a good parent or make good medical decisions for those under their care.

Also, you must bear in mind the legal definitions of abuse and neglect, especially as it pertains to children.

* Any recent act or failure to act on the part of a parent or caretaker which results in death, serious physical or emotional harm, sexual abuse or exploitation; or

* An act or failure to act which presents an imminent risk of serious harm.

Federal definition of child abuse

No one has the right to force unwanted medical care on anyone, I completely agree with you. The safeguards and reporting procedures are in place to protect those children with incompetent or abusive parents. Reporting a refusal of appropriate medical treatment, as documented by the medics, was appropriate. The caseworker visiting was appropriate- better safe than sorry. Sending SWAT was absolutely retarded.

Look at the MOI on this one too... kid grabs moving car, falls, strikes head. Someone calls medics. Medics feel child needs treatment, and follow reporting procedures. Also bear in mind that you don't need multiple incidences of abuse or suspected abuse to activate social services.

Social services tends to be hyper-reactive and way too eager to push the panic button. I dislike them myself. They *really* screwed with part of my family in Florida a few years back. But, I will not hesitate to report something that doesn't sit well with me. If I think your child might have a brain bleed or the high potential for it and you refuse to have them seen, I will be reporting potential neglect.

If a parent appropriately wishes to refuse care then I have no problem with it. If I feel the refusal jeopardizes a child's well being, I will have issues with it.

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[Eydawn]

Ok so the medics in this situation were NUTS. But it still doesn't change the fact that if you are behaving in a manner that will cause harm to your children your parental rights will be taken away. Unfortunately, this has gone way too far in this country, but where adequate medical care is concerned, I'm ok with it. I'm not ok with it in cases of normal discipline, etc.

Thank God for the Home School Legal Defense Association... so many people would be screwed without these people helping to back them and their parenting decisions!

Wendy

CO EMT-B