should we do away with EMT certification

[towheadedmule]

Yeah, I thought I was still talking to Paramistress. Sorry for the confusion.

Sorry Dust. On the other hand I am still a bit irked for paramistress. Knowing her predilection for future of our profession coupled with her choice in handles seems a slap in the face.

R

[paramistress]

Why can't you all just stop the kindergarten name calling, and act like the professionals that you claim to be. Learn to accept the fact that other people have opinions that may be different from yours and move on!

[brentoli]

Did I miss the name calling? Usually that stuff gets good!

[akroeze]

Why can't you all just stop the kindergarten name calling, and act like the professionals that you claim to be. Learn to accept the fact that other people have opinions that may be different from yours and move on!

[extreme analogy]Learn to accept the fact that other people feel murder is acceptable which is different than your opinion and move on[/extreme analogy]

[towheadedmule]

I am just amazed at what I am reading here. The medical community is a tiered system. Physicians, nurses, medics, techs, EMT's.

I was wondering what was bothering me about this statement. First was the list, from physician to EMT. Seemed a bit odd (at least in my state). Techs here can be unlicensed and receive OJT, some are EMTs, some are patient care techs (read CNA with foley and pheblotomy skills). My course for Paramedic actually required the same about of didactic and a third more clinical hours as the RNs. But by this list I am under a RN? Wait, when I call for Medical Control, I get a physician, not a nurse. When I give report it is to a person of equal licensure, thus a nurse and myself, per my state, are equals.

Then it struck me with what I really had a problem. Tiered? The medical community is tiered? I prefer a TEAM approach. It has fewer egos, and helps more patients. My job is to ensure the safe transport of patients and to deliver them to care in equal or better shape than in which I found. I do this for all my patients; the ankle sprains, headaches, CVA, AMI, the lonely person who just does not feel like living anymore. And has a team player, I have a duty to improve. To take refreshers and new classes, and later to teach those classes so that others may follow. I do not have that duty to my team, but to my end user, My patients.

You owe it to your future patients to be the best you can be.

R

[Cowboy7427]

P only forgive me if I offend anyone. Some of us "Basics and I's" do this to help our communities. It isn't who's more qualified or IN CHARGE. It is "We are here to help people". At least that's how it should be...

[DwayneEMTP]

Why can't you all just stop the kindergarten name calling, and act like the professionals that you claim to be. Learn to accept the fact that other people have opinions that may be different from yours and move on!

PM, I as well don't see name calling so much as descriptions of your ideas.

Why would you want people to accept your opinion and move on? Why would you choose to post if you didn't want the opinions of others?

We attempt, though often in a very clumsy manner, to find the truth. It seems to me that you are offended that your opinion isn't getting more respect, but the problem is that the way you've chosen to practice your craft shows disrespect for EMS and all of those that have made this a career.

I know it's hard to hear, and some of the posts were much more aggressive than necessary, but they are honest opinions based on decades of experience in this field.

The reason that this thread has become unproductive is that you've chosen to reply with "Why can't you just be nice to me" instead of addressing specific points that have offended you or that you disagree with.

We rarely agree to disagree here. It's not our goal to 'get along', our goal is to gut and fillet every reasonable idea, break it down until we can find out what parts of it are 'right', or productive, and which are 'wrong' or unproductive or destructive to EMS in general and each of us specifically.

I for one like your posts, though very much disagree with you on this, and hope that you'll stay. But for you to find this to be a productive medium you'll have to start researching your ideas, be able to back your thoughts with, if not documentation, at least rock solid logical debate.

Many of these folks took time out of their day to quote your posts and reply to your thoughts, I would hope you could find the respect for the time they've spent and reply in kind.

Asking for people to be gentle, to ignore your wrong ideas thus allowing you to remain wrong, is not considered a kindness here. Helping you to be better, smarter, stronger, more logical....those are our goals, not to beat you down.

I'd love to see what you have to say, so please stop asking for people to be nice, and couch your arguments in logic that forces people to take you seriously.

Some of the questions you’ve continued to ignore maybe deserve answers, not only out of respect for those that asked, but to clarify this issue in your mind.

1. You stated that you have a job that allows you to make considerably more money than is available in EMS:

a. I’m guessing you’ve worked hard to deserve that money and security. How would you feel if others started doing it for free?

b. After losing 50% of your income, as your boss no longer needs to pay you well because he has all the help he needs for the cost of a few pizzas, would you welcome those people into the fold? Would you be comfortable listening to them tell you that you it’s ok that you can’t pay your mortgage because “they are giving back to their community?”

Thanks for taking the time to share your ideas with us.

Dwayne

[paramistress]

Dwayne, thank you for some well thought out input. I started out trying to respond to this thread, but was taken back by the insults such as: I am not dedicated because I am JUST an EMT, I am screwing my profession, this is just a hobby to me, I lie and I am a selfish, unprofessional Klingon. All of that is completely unnecessary. I have tried to explain that the EMS system in NJ is different than every other state. I don't say it's good, bad, right or wrong, just different. Would I object if they tried to replace me in one of my jobs with a volunteer? Of course I would! But that is not what has happened in NJ. Volunteer EMT's have been the state standard since before Medics even existed. Because of the way our system is set up, paid services do not want to cover most of the podunk municipalities in my area...there is no money to be made. And if they offer to cover, their idea of coverage is to put ONE ambulance in place to cover multiple municipalities, over large areas, thus SEVERELY compromising patient care. I know this for a fact because I have had access to many of the negotiations over the years. I am taking a job from NOONE in this state.

As far as volunteering, I believe most professions have some kind of volunteer services. Doctors, nurses, police all have access to some kind of volunteer work. Is a physician who volunteers at a clinic or a school ruining the life of some other physician? What about someone who volunteers time to educate others? Are they evil and unprofessional?

As far as getting rid of EMT's period...WHY? What is wrong with having EMT's handle BLS calls and allowing Medics to attend to ALS calls? Or having EMT's assist the Medics? And why is someone who doesn't get a higher cert than EMT less dedicated or unprofessional? Would you say the same about a nurse who is only an LPN? Or a physician who is in family practice and doesn't want to be a cardiologist?

I am all for the sharing of ideas and even a heated discussion, but there is never a need to resort to insults and name calling.

[Dustdevil]

I have tried to explain that the EMS system in NJ is different than every other state. I don't say it's good, bad, right or wrong, just different.

And YOU are the reason it stays that way. Do you have the care, concern, and dedication to your community to help change that? Or is your hobby more important to you than what is best for your community?

...there is no money to be made.

Again, YOU are the reason why there is no money to be made. You won't admit it here, but you know it's true. And we know you know.

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

Should we just do away with EMT certification and only go with paramedic?

yep. your argument is succinct and appropriate.

Regards,

PRPG Firerescuetech

EMT-B