should we do away with EMT certification

[AnthonyM83]

Well, I don't actually think the cert needs to be abolished, just raise the minimum cert level for EMS.

Technicians are still needed for ERs and ambulance transfers from con-homes to ERs (recognizing medical emergencies and upgrading to L&S en-route or calling 911 when they arrive at the con-home, etc is needed). Many areas can still use them as first-in responders while ALS arrives, even.

[letmesleep]

Ok time to add a little fuel to the fire: :twisted:

To the people that support doing away with emt certs:

1. What do you do with the already certified emts?

Are they now unemployed? If not then what do you do with them?

2. If they are required to upgrade to paramedic can they work while going to school.

The cost of this would be paid for by whom? If the emts can't work they will have no money for school.

Will there be enough schools to handle this influx of students, or will we be creating medic mills?

That just teach what you need to pass national registry.

To the people that support keeping emt certification:

Should the education requirements be increased to teach advanced assessment skills.

Just some food for thought, we can complain all day long but unless we come up with answers to our questions. We sound like a bunch of whinebags on ritalin.

I see where your heading here, but I still want to know why it is that EMTs that stay EMTs do this.

If you eliminate the cert today, then I'd say that "working" EMTs should be allowed to continue working with a time frame to complete their degree. If their employer has the education benefits available and the EMT qualifies for them (with the company/ district), and the employer wants to hang on to this employee, then there is the money. If this is not the situation then it will get back to it being a "personal goal" for lack of a better term. How many medics here paid their way through school to obtain their license? For that reason alone I think the question is moot!

[tamaith]

well put duke, and its never going to happen MAYBE at certain companies but thats it getting rid of emt-b will never happen nation wide. it can't you have to crawl before you walk and walk before you run.

[sirduke]

Ok Dust, lets change the metaphor, remember the 2LT's straight out of officer basic, they may have had the title, and the training, but that sure as hell didn't make them experienced leaders.

You seem to take everything that you oppose as a direct attack upon yourself.

If you want to be an authority on everything, then fine, do so, however, the last time I looked, there was no ban on discussion.

Flame on

[Don1977]

Hey dead horse, can I kick you some more......

[Arizonaffcep]

Sorry to interrupt the "debate," however I am curious. I am not one for getting rid of the Basic cert, under CURRENT CONDITIONS. Why couldn't we take (I'm not just throwing this out, but seriously suggesting this) the whole Basic/Advanced/Paramedic thing, and make it a standard 4 year degree (could even equate this to "Med School"), where the first 2 years are nothing but classroom stuffs, and the last 2 class/clinical combo. Then...we could do away with the different levels, actually GAIN professionalism via education, and MAYBE, just maybe really expand our scope of practice. Seriously, why don't we try to do something like this?

[Kaisu]

Sorry to interrupt the "debate," however I am curious. I am not one for getting rid of the Basic cert, under CURRENT CONDITIONS. Why couldn't we take (I'm not just throwing this out, but seriously suggesting this) the whole Basic/Advanced/Paramedic thing, and make it a standard 4 year degree (could even equate this to "Med School"), where the first 2 years are nothing but classroom stuffs, and the last 2 class/clinical combo. Then...we could do away with the different levels, actually GAIN professionalism via education, and MAYBE, just maybe really expand our scope of practice. Seriously, why don't we try to do something like this?

:hello1: YES!!!

[AnthonyM83]

Sorry to interrupt the "debate," however I am curious. I am not one for getting rid of the Basic cert, under CURRENT CONDITIONS. Why couldn't we take (I'm not just throwing this out, but seriously suggesting this) the whole Basic/Advanced/Paramedic thing, and make it a standard 4 year degree (could even equate this to "Med School"), where the first 2 years are nothing but classroom stuffs, and the last 2 class/clinical combo.

There would have to be an incentive for people to spend four years training. A bridge over program to nursing or PA etc would have to built in. I wouldn't want to go to college for four years to get undergrad, then four years to train in EMS, then after 8 years in the field realize I don't want to retire out loading gurneys into the ambulance, still paying back my student loans . . .

[DwayneEMTP]

Ok Dust, lets change the metaphor, remember the 2LT's straight out of officer basic, they may have had the title, and the training, but that sure as hell didn't make them experienced leaders.

You seem to take everything that you oppose as a direct attack upon yourself.

If you want to be an authority on everything, then fine, do so, however, the last time I looked, there was no ban on discussion.

Flame on

Actually the only flaming I see happening are your responses to the posts that disagree with you.

The often asked questions....

If experience is so good for medics prior to gaining experience, then why don't any of the respected professions do the same? Doctors, nurses, police...and on and on. If it's so good, why is the only truly disrespected medical profession the only one to do it?

I brought 42 years of life experience to this job. I got my AAS, zero to hero, and went into the field with a lot of tools many experienced medics seemed to lack. I was good with people, good with pressure, able to organize and prioritize better than many of the younger, yet more experienced, medics I precepted and worked with.

So when you claim that nearly all of the exp basics you worked with made great medics, and vise versa, you understand why I call bs.

There are a gazillion and one things that determine why people become competent, intelligent, compassionate medics. To boil it down to experience alone makes you look silly. And to quote numbers, when all you really have is anecdotal "feelings" makes you look uneducated. I don't believe you to be either; I think you’re simply presenting your ideas poorly.

Try not to be so thin skinned, respond to the posts of those that have shaped this industry from the beginning, instead of complain about them, and I truly believe you will have a lot to learn here.

It's obvious you also have a lot to teach, but it's hard to find the lessons when you couch much of what you have to say in tantrums.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts...

Dwayne

[sirduke]

I can't see where discussing this is a tantrum, but I've seen in this site that there are several posters who no matter what the subject, make themselves the ultimate authority on it.

I sure am not an authority on everything, and that makes me doubt that they are either.

Anyway, I'm sure you and the others will take this as a tantrum, or a whine, so what is the point.

I stated my thoughts, got flamed, so be it.

I didn't say every zero to hero was bad, nor did I say that every experienced EMT who went medic was great, read my previous post.

This topic is pointless anyway. Until the governing bodies decide to eliminate the Basics, or Intermediates, we will have them.

Bashing those who disagree with your opinion proves nothing.

Until then.

Duke, Out...