should we do away with EMT certification

[CBEMT]

It just impresses the hell out of me that you went from civilian teenager to paramedic without any stops in between

Just because that's the rule doesn't mean it's a good idea.

rural america needs EMTs and will continue to use them.

Actually, given the long transport times, rural areas are the the ones that need paramedics- urban areas could potentially get by with EMTs due to (mostly) short transport times to hospitals.

[Arizonaffcep]

Just because that's the rule doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Actually, given the long transport times, rural areas are the the ones that need paramedics- urban areas could potentially get by with EMTs due to (mostly) short transport times to hospitals.

True...however the reason it's got an inversion is because of the cost of medics vs EMT-B's, and typically, (forgive me if this is a misstatement) it seems as though the more rural areas have volunteers, which it's much easier to find EMT-B vollies than medic vollies.

[Timmy]

The standard entry level to most ambulance services in Australia is a 3 year bachelor degree.

Not so long ago the standard entry was a 3 year diploma, in some states this is still the case. To be accepted into the 3 year diploma you had to be 21 with life experience and have a good employment history. You were employed as a full time student paramedic working mostly on road with block units of theory/classes and distance education.

Most services opted to make the degree standard entry for financial reasons, it was cheaper to make people pay 20 grand then recruit from a university than it was to recruit them from the street.

In most services there’s really not much difference in regards to scope of practice, in some cases, with a little extra training your advanced diploma encumbers a greater scope than a degree. Who has the better deal? The on road diploma student who after 3 years will be a paramedic with on road experience and getting paid to learn or the degree paramedic who forked out 20 grand and has little on road experience. You also need to take into consideration the diploma student is guaranteed a job at the end and the degree student may have to fight for a job.

Being a hospital based student nurse I’ve seen the graduate degree nurses come onto the floor with little understanding of what the job is really about and some struggle with some very basic tasks yet they went very well in tertiary education. There’s also story’s that float around the paramedics that new medics with degrees work for a few weeks then decide EMS is really not for them yet they’ve spent 20 grad on education.

There’s always been a lot of debate as to which program is better. Some think the degree program was a backward step and some think the degree program is the way to go… Take your pick.

As for me, I think there’s a fine line. It’s important to have a good combination of practical and theory but at the same time everyone learns in different ways.

I probably have no right to comment on American EMS, I can only go with what’s been said on here. I find it bizarre that EMT basics are allowed to run emergency, even to the point of seeing them as pointless. Non emergency transport officers in Australia have better scopes and education that an EMTB and there job pretty much consists of pushing around stretchers all shift.

[letmesleep]

I feel that I have always been an supporter of the EMTs, but I will admit that the "NEED" for me isn't there either. I work with an EMT, she has been my PARTNER for 8 years now. She has also been an EMT for 18 years, and she is currently finishing up her DEGREE for her paramedic license. As PARTNERS, we rely on each other to get the job done. As PARTNERS, we trust that each other will be taking care of the things that the Pts need. WE don't see any "lines" until it gets down to the advanced skills, and that is because of the legal issues that would hurt both of us if she were to step outside her scope of practice.

With that said, I will ask this question.

To all the EMT lifers, why did you stop your education? Why are YOU ok with being an EMT for the rest of your life? I will continue to teach and support the EMTs as a LEVEL of the profession, but why do you want to stop learning? Why would you NOT want the knowledge, pay (not it won't make you rich, but it is still better pay), and the rest of the bennies (I use that term loosely) that go along with being a Paramedic. Its true, we all need to start somewhere, but If you become content with being at the bottom of the food chain, then your not going to survive as a profession. You will start to see a back lash of education and expectations on the EMT level the longer you stay there, oh wait, it has already started happening. How is it that the EMTs are supporting our career by being stagnate? We all complain that the pay sucks, but until we start pushing those who make this a career to complete the higher education, we can not expect to see changes. As long as we give companies, districts, and departments a cheaper way of providing the care needed by the public, we are dispensable.

WAKE UP!!!!!

[Dustdevil]

I do not feel that saying that the system I choose to work in sucks is very appropriate when you do not know anything about it. Unlike the "Pleasantville " you live in, rural america needs EMTs and will continue to use them.

I know exactly what you have told me about your system, which is that it would collapse without basic EMTs. That's all anyone needs to know in order to know that it sucks.

And I have spent the great majority of my career in rural EMS. Still, as a paramedic, I never "needed" an EMT in order to do my job. And I never worked in a rural system that could not do without them. Again, apparently yours just sucks, because the last rural systems I worked for used basics only as dispatchers.

[paramistress]

In response to letmesleep..I choose to be an EMT lifer. In my state (NJ and I don't want to hear comments about how awful the EMS system is in NJ, it works for us!) I ride strictly as a volunteer. I don't want to be a medic. I work in a job that pays much better than medics make in this state and I am happy to volunteer my time as an EMT. Because of our system, if Medic was the only certification, they would be wasting their time transporting the sprained ankles and head colds.

[letmesleep]

paramistress, let me be the first of many CAREER medics and EMTs here to thank you personally for making OUR profession a hobby. Thank you for letting us know that further education in our field of choice is a great "waste of time", as you put it!

Transporting the sprained ankles and head colds is part of my job as well, and being educated (medically) has never once in my career been a waste of time. The waste of time is being spent on an ambulance that your NOT getting paid for. Your right it is your choice, but know this, as long as you choose Not to continue with your further/ higher education, then choose to do the job for free, you are harming those of us who are trying to improve and raise the bar (so to speak) for our lively hood. Do you have any desire of being recognized as a professional when volunteering your time? Are you content on just being an ambulance driver? By treating this job as a hobby thats exactly where we are headed.

[reaper]

In response to letmesleep..I choose to be an EMT lifer. In my state (NJ and I don't want to hear comments about how awful the EMS system is in NJ, it works for us!) I ride strictly as a volunteer. I don't want to be a medic. I work in a job that pays much better than medics make in this state and I am happy to volunteer my time as an EMT. Because of our system, if Medic was the only certification, they would be wasting their time transporting the sprained ankles and head colds.

Why don't you work EMS full time and volunteer at your other job? Oh wait, that would be hurting your livelihood and profession!(hint hint)

P.S. since you DON'T want to be a medic, Change your screenname!

[paramistress]

EMS to me is NOT a hobby. It is a rewarding and important way for me to give back to my community. Just because I choose not to become a medic does not make me any less of a medical professional than anyone else. In fact, one could argue that volunteers are more dedicated than those getting paid to work in the field. Some of you need to realize that different states have different needs...one size does not fit all!

[spenac]

EMS to me is NOT a hobby. It is a rewarding and important way for me to give back to my community. Just because I choose not to become a medic does not make me any less of a medical professional than anyone else. In fact, one could argue that volunteers are more dedicated than those getting paid to work in the field. Some of you need to realize that different states have different needs...one size does not fit all!

By volunteering you are taking money away from my family. As long as you and others give your services away for free we can never expect to see our wages go up. As to your being more dedicated because you volly I cry BS. I have devoted my life furthering my self to benefit my community. Yes I get a check for it but my community gets the best care possible. I give back to my community by being there when they need me with the best and most up to date education I can get. I give back by not stopping at the lowest level possible. I give back by doing things not required by my job description.