should we do away with EMT certification

[JPINFV]

In fact, one could argue that volunteers are more dedicated than those getting paid to work in the field.

Yes, because people who's lively hood revolves around providing prehospital medical care are obviously less dedicated, even though they have much more on the line than a volunteer. Besides, if one could argue that, then why aren't people arguing that? I don't care what someone could argue for. I care what they are arguing for.

[letmesleep]

paramistress wrote:

"Just because I choose not to become a medic does not make me any less of a medical professional than anyone else."

Actually yes it does for this very instance, A Paramedic is a higher level professional than you are as an EMT.

paramistress wrote:

"In fact, one could argue that volunteers are more dedicated than those getting paid to work in the field."

How appropriate a statement considering the date tomorrow!!!!

The dedication argument is moot, I too have dedicated my life, and the lives of my family to my career. The fact that you do this for FREE shows people that there are those out there willing to do it cheaper than what I would cost them. There is NO difference than taking your full-time job and out sourcing it to a third world country in the name of saving money. You want to give back to the community and feel good about yourself, go pick up trash along the highway or volunteer to read to an elementary class once in a while. Why do you not want to get paid for your "dedication"? If they offered you a check, would you cash it? Your right, as it stands, "one size does not fit all", but lets ask why that is?

[medicmole]

The fact that you do this for FREE shows people that there are those out there willing to do it cheaper than what I would cost them. There is NO difference than taking your full-time job and out sourcing it to a third world country in the name of saving money.

Excellent analogy :cheers:

[paramistress]

I am just amazed at what I am reading here. The medical community is a tiered system. Physicians, nurses, medics, techs, EMT's. Do you think there is something wrong with a tech who does not want to be a nurse or a nurse who does not want to be a doctor? And you wonder why EMS gets no respect??? You don't even support your own! Why do you assume that an EMT who does not want to be a medic is lazy or ignorant? There could be hundreds of reasons not to persue a medic cert.

And no, I am not taking a job away from ANYONE. NJ is a volunteer state...all I am doing is saving the citizens of this great state a great deal of money.

And YES...I am as professional as anyone else in medicine, I just don't have as high a certification as others.

If you spent as much time supporting one another in EMS rather than complaining about them, we might just become a well-respected profession.

[letmesleep]

Let us first not make the mistake that I do not support my own. As a volunteer who is quite comfortable Not getting paid for doing the same job as any career or paid EMT and/ or medic out there, you are NOT my own. Just so we are clear on that issue! As long as you choose to do this for nothing but a warm fuzzy feeling inside, you continue to harm and take away jobs from those of us who made this profession a career. Secondly, If you (and I am talking about all of those volunteers in NJ) would think for half a second outside the box, you would realize that the wonderful state that you are helping to save money for, is TAKING ADVANTAGE OF YOU! As long as you and your people continue to volunteer they will not see a need to change to a paid system. Now If I read correctly in your first post today, you mentioned something along the lines of NOT wanting to hear about how bad the NJ system is, am I correct? This leads me to believe that you knowingly participate in a system that is below par. If this is the case then you automatically are not being respected within your own state. What can you do to fix this? Is there a way for you to be more involved in your state to correct this, and possibly better the system for those that you so willing serve for free? I'm going to go out on a limb and say NO, because this is a HOBBY! You admitted yourself that you have a full-time job elsewhere, and don't need EMS to pay the bills. The unfortunate issue here is that we (me and you) have gotten off of the original topic that this post was about to discuss a very dead issue. Volunteering harms this profession, and until you begin to open your eyes that you are being taken advantage of by your state legislators, you will never understand why.

Now getting back to the issue of EMTs. I never once in this thread said anything about them being lazy (although I have said it before elsewhere about EMT-I) or ignorant. I don't understand why anyone would pick a career, and stop their education to remain at the bottom of the food chain. We all transport sprains and head colds, so why shouldn't we have as much knowledge about how we are handling those Pts as possible? Don't they deserve that? If you truly want to serve those citizens (either for free or not) then give them 100%, provide them with a medic who can administer pain control, and other comfort measures when they have that sprain, instead of just slapping a splint on and bouncing them down the road in the back of your TRUCK.

[Dustdevil]

In response to letmesleep..I choose to be an EMT lifer. In my state (NJ and I don't want to hear comments about how awful the EMS system is in NJ, it works for us!)

The fact that you think "it works" is proof positive that you haven't the slightest clue what you are talking about. If "it works", why did a special commission have to spend a year investigating why it doesn't work? Or are you so completely uninformed about your little hobby that you didn't even know that?

I am just amazed at what I am reading here.

Really? You have been a "career EMT" for this many years, and yet this is the first time you have ever heard a serious discussion of professional issues? Yeah... that system is really working for you.

And you wonder why EMS gets no respect??? You don't even support your own!

Hobbyists are not "my own." Neither are flunkees who think a three week first aid course makes them a member of a profession. Don't flatter yourself.

Why do you assume that an EMT who does not want to be a medic is lazy or ignorant? There could be hundreds of reasons not to persue a medic cert.

Not a single one of those reasons would convince me to hire them. But I don't think you are lazy or ignorant. I just think you are selfish and unprofessional.

And no, I am not taking a job away from ANYONE. NJ is a volunteer state...all I am doing is saving the citizens of this great state a great deal of money.

You're not saving them anything. You're costing them money to provide a system that doesn't even work. If, because of your presence, your community were receiving professional EMS, you might have a point. But, you do not. And yes, you are taking a job away from a paramedic who would be employed there, and providing professional medical care to your community, if the public were not kept blissfully ignorant of the fact that they have no medical care.

And YES...I am as professional as anyone else in medicine, I just don't have as high a certification as others.

It has very little to do with your certification. Every thing you have said here is proof positive that you are neither a professional, nor are you professional. You're a selfish little klingon, taking the thrills you can, the good of the community and the profession be damned. There is nothing professional about anything you do within EMS.

If you spent as much time supporting one another in EMS rather than complaining about them, we might just become a well-respected profession.

We support those who are in the profession. You are not in the profession.

[paramistress]

I am sorry that so many of you feel threatened by the volunteers. You may think whatever you like, but we know that we are professional and educated. And we are VERY PROUD of the work that we do!!! Maybe you would feel the same way if you stopped whining for a while!! I am not going to argue about the NJ system, it has it's flaws as does any system. I am well aware of what goes on in NJ because, although I do not Ride as a paid EMT, I work for several paid and volunteer agencies in the state. When all agencies work TOGETHER we, as a profession, know no bounds!!!

[Dustdevil]

I am sorry that so many of you feel threatened by the volunteers.

You are conveniently avoiding the key question; would you feel "threatened" if a group of volunteers took over your paying job? Would you "support" them in doing that?

You may think whatever you like, but we know that we are professional and educated.

One hundred twenty hours is not an education. Your hairdresser has over twenty times that education. Your nail technician -- who probably doesn't even speak English -- has twice the education as you. You take yourself, and your three week first aid course, way too seriously. Get over it.

And we are VERY PROUD of the work that we do!!!

You're proud of taking food out of the mouths of those who would like to make a living in this profession? You're proud of being the reason that your community does not have full-time professional ALS EMS? Is there something else that you "do" that I am missing?

Maybe you would feel the same way if you stopped whining for a while!!

I don't know what you do for a living, but whatever it is, give that job to me. Let me just have it. I don't need the money, so I'll just do it for free and for fun. I challenge you to not "whine" about that. I guarantee you that you cannot do it. And your inability to put yourself in the shoes of others, and understand their loss is indicative of a lack of intelligent reasoning, and more important, a lack of compassion. With no compassion, you simply do not posses the necessary temperament to be a medical professional.

I am not going to argue about the NJ system, it has it's flaws as does any system.

But you're happy with that? That's good enough for you? You don't care if it gets better or not? Again, this lack of concern for the profession illustrates that you are not one of us. If you were an EMS professional, you would care about the quality of your EMS system. But, you're not, so long as you get to keep your hobby.

[Asysin2leads]

Guys, don't even bother with paramistress. We've had her type before and we'll have it again. How many times will we have some vollie (and they are ALWAYS from NJ, I tell you) come in here beating their chest, priding themselves on their own ignorance before we realize you just can't talk to these people? There are two types of EMS workers in New Jersey. Those who realize how much it sucks, and move, and those who stick their heads in the sand and sing the theme to Third Watch so they can't hear other people's rational arguments. I know plenty of people in the former and she is just another one of the latter. Its really no use.

But for what its worth, I'd say tales of elderly people waiting 20 minutes for ALS and being internally defibrillated over 300 times while brave NJ volunteers sit by and watch helpless does a lot more to ruin EMS' reputation than "not supporting our own." And also for the record, I do NOT count someone who refuses to educate themselves or work to support the field they work in as "one of my own," because for the last 10 years or so I've been doing just that. You're not like me, and I don't support you. I'll put on my class A and say nice things about you at your funeral, sure, but just because you wear a patch similar to mine does not make you my brother, my colleague, or even my friend.

And if I am sounding a bit harsher than usual it has to do with the fact that we are about 3 hours away from the anniversary of one of the worst days of my life, and the only thing that makes it even worse is to know that there are families of my true colleagues who will be suffering tomorrow and everyday like it, because their loved ones did not receive the same pay or benefits of others, and that is in part of people who were willing to do their job for free.

[AnthonyM83]

Come now, yup, what you guys have said is mostly true, but you can't expect someone who has only been exposed to a completely different outlook and mentality to do a 180 because of what random people on the net say. Para, stick around and give it some time to sink in...read some related posts.