should we do away with EMT certification

[Asysin2leads]

I get a little annoyed when people use the analogy of BSN and PhD in nursing and PA to MD. There is a huge difference here in educational standards. What people don't realize is that when people like me say that paramedic should be the only standard of care for EMS, its not because I'm saying that everybody should strive for the highest level possible, although ambition is still a good thing, its because I believe that the level of training and education for a paramedic only starts to scratch the surface of what is needed to provide quality care to the critically ill and injured. So, I reiterate my point that I believe everyone should be at the bare minimum level if they are responding to a 911 call. My opinion.

[Kaisu]

I agree the "I" level is fairly useless. Don't know how it is elsewhere, but in AZ, they can do everything a medic can, except central lines. With a lot less schooling. How Cool!

Hmm - correct me if I'm wrong, but I was told that AZ has done away with EMT-I and only EMT-B and EMT-P are now licensed in the state.

[Arizonaffcep]

Hmm - correct me if I'm wrong, but I was told that AZ has done away with EMT-I and only EMT-B and EMT-P are now licensed in the state.

As far as I know, we still have them. They are NOT prevelant in central and southern AZ, but northern has quite a few. Don't know about western AZ.

[JakeEMTP]

I see where your heading here, but I still want to know why it is that EMTs that stay EMTs do this.

If you eliminate the cert today, then I'd say that "working" EMTs should be allowed to continue working with a time frame to complete their degree. If their employer has the education benefits available and the EMT qualifies for them (with the company/ district), and the employer wants to hang on to this employee, then there is the money. If this is not the situation then it will get back to it being a "personal goal" for lack of a better term. How many medics here paid their way through school to obtain their license? For that reason alone I think the question is moot!

Agreed. I know I paid my own way through school.. Anyway, if the EMT-B's were required to upgrade to paramedic, I think I could safely say they would leave the profession in droves. All that book learnin' and all.

[Arizonaffcep]

It is still not the highest level of training or education in a profession that even the highest level (Paramedic) is considered very low. It is just a few extra hours of training with only a handful of skills. Usually the knowledge behind those skills at that level is barely above the EMT-B. It leads to more fragmentation of the system and the incompleteness of EMS education needed to become a respected healthcare profession.

I agree, however the liability is the same IF they are the highest level o/s. If they aren't, they it's different. That's what I was getting at.

[AnthonyM83]

[Arizonaffcep]

While those are general pre req's for med school and what not, they are good classes for anyone in the medical field. After all, chemistry, for instance, is the basis for almost all other sciences and 2 semesters of it is kind of a drop in the bucket for learning a "base" science (no pun intended).

[Marius357]

I do agree that the EMT-B should be phased out and higher levels of education should be a standard. Even as a "Diploma" Paramedic I feel my education is not enough for dealing with sick/injured people, yeah sure I can treat CHF and an AMI, but I still feel I am lacking alot of education. I feel anyone who is in medicine should always to strive to obtain more knowledge, in some way I think or hope anyway that is why we choice medicine as a career. Medicine is always evolving and growing and new treatments come out everyday, If we do not continue our education we are simply going to be left in the dust.

I do agree with some form of degree being the standard of education whether it is a 2 year or a four year degree. I feel that a 2 year would probably be the ideal place to start and then progress from up from there. Until we improve our standards no one will ever give us more respect or better salaries. So why settle for bottom of the barrel, as a fairly young field we still have room to grow and improve.

For those that volunteer, that may be what is currently working or not working for your area but why settle for lower healthcare and standards of education. If you are "dedicated" to helping people, would you not also be dedicated to helping people get the best level of care possible, or dedicated to improving your knowledge base of medicine and thus our profession in general. I have no problem with anyone who is a volunteer, just make sure to provide your patients with the best possible care available. Most of the volunteers that I see in this area do so with little respect for our profession, showing up to calls wearing shorts and sandals. They are almost always a EMT-B and when asked why they dont go on to get their paramedic cert, The response is almost always "because I dont get paid for it" well if that is your answer than stop volunteering and let some one who wants to further their knowledge regardless if they are getting paid for it or not, step up and take your spot.

[triemal04]

I agree, however the liability is the same IF they are the highest level o/s. If they aren't, they it's different. That's what I was getting at.

That's only half right though. Yes, if an EMT-I is the highest level on scene then they have the responsibility for the patient, and will be held accountable if something goes wrong (as it should be...for every level). But, the level of education they have is still very low compared to a Paramedic or other medical professional. The argument can easily be made that because of that, they have less responsibility to alleviate the patient's problems, and the treatments available will (probably) be less than what a paramedic can do. So while they will both be liable for when something goes wrong, the amount of time it may happen to a paramedic is much higher.

Think of it this way: a paramedic with the ability to perform a crichothyrotomy or surgical trach runs on a patient where that procedure is needed. They don't do it and the patient dies. Did they screw up and should they be punished for it? Yes and yes. Now, take an EMT-I and the same patient...they can't perform that procedure, so they don't, and the patient dies. Did they screw up and should they be punished for it? No and no. Both are responsible for the patient's care, but only one will have any problems because of the higher level of care that is expected to be provided.

Trust me, that issue is in full swing (back in full swing apparently) here.

[Don1977]

The more I kick the horse its still dead.......