Basic vs. Medic

[JPINFV]

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[sevenball842]

Agreed. I think I said that. If the education was there, and it was harder to pass (not harder to get into school), then we would have the cream of the crop. I said if those conditions were in place, I wouldn't have an issue with entry level education being Paramedic. You're right, its not "skill", it's education. This is something that our field lacks, this we agree on.

What we don't have, is the testicular fortitude to bounce those candidates out that simply don't show proficiency. After doing all we can to work with those individuals, we simply should not just pass them through the class in hopes that the registry exam will weed them out, just because they are being sponsored by a fire dept. or have friends of friends who are influential.

I fear that I may be speaking only from my own dealings as an instructor, and may be spouting off based on my own frustrations with the education system (or lack there of). There are times that I feel that my hands are tied, that I have a mile of red tape to cut before I am able to fail a student out. I'm digressing from the original topic, but this is a spin off of the education debate.

In order to change the course, I feel we must be given the ability to govern and change our own field. After all, who knows us better than ourselves?

[DwayneEMTP]

It's all good folks. Having been in the field during the days when the rookies got hazed, and we were told to stand in the corner until spoken to, I have some pretty tough skin. I can take the hits with the best of them, as long as everyone is willing to catch some bullets back, I'm willing to get taken out back and flogged with a 14f whip suction catheter.

Though it's no secret I've found many valuable posts here..this may in fact be my favorite for the last several months...

Dwayne

[DwayneEMTP]

I fear you mistake my passion for attitude. I believe that if we do not stand up for what we believe, we have lost our field to glory hounds. I have a deep respect for medicine, and a deep respect for those who fight for it, even those whom I don't agree with. To think that any one of us are "better" than the other simply angers me, that is all I am trying to get across. I'm glad I've sparked such a debate. As long as there are "newbies" like me out there, and "seniors" like you to debate with me, then the topic never really is dead. Although I do concede that this post should have been place under a different, existing thread, the topic itself may never be resolved, and will always be highly debated, don't you?

Wait...this is now my favorite post in the last few months...(give me a break! I'm old!)

Dwayne

[sevenball842]

Thank you for the support. I was feeling alone, standing on the sidelines after being picked last for kickball.

[JPINFV]

Agreed. I think I said that. If the education was there, and it was harder to pass (not harder to get into school), then we would have the cream of the crop. I said if those conditions were in place, I wouldn't have an issue with entry level education being Paramedic. You're right, its not "skill", it's education. This is something that our field lacks, this we agree on.

What we don't have, is the testicular fortitude to bounce those candidates out that simply don't show proficiency. After doing all we can to work with those individuals, we simply should not just pass them through the class in hopes that the registry exam will weed them out, just because they are being sponsored by a fire dept. or have friends of friends who are influential.

I fear that I may be speaking only from my own dealings as an instructor, and may be spouting off based on my own frustrations with the education system (or lack there of). There are times that I feel that my hands are tied, that I have a mile of red tape to cut before I am able to fail a student out. I'm digressing from the original topic, but this is a spin off of the education debate.

In order to change the course, I feel we must be given the ability to govern and change our own field. After all, who knows us better than ourselves?

And now we've moved past this being a "Medic vs Basic" issue to a question of education. THIS is what most of the posters here have a problem with [education standards], not Basics per say.

[ccmedoc]

This is my thoughts on the basic thing...more or less a formality. Its no that we need to do away with the basic license, only use them for what they are best at...advanced first aid and first response...

I posted this in another topic of discussion...kinda applies here.

I don't think necessarily do away with it, for transfers and such..just not in EMS proper. Emergency ambulances should have paramedics.

This was the formality I was talking about. Unless you WANT to deliver advanced first aid for a living, not many people get into EMS to be a basic EMT. Aside from the aforementioned FF and lifeguard..I don't think there is any valid argument as to the necessity of basic before medic, and against incorporating the basic curriculum into paramedic degree..notice the DEGREE part...

Make the paramedic license an entry level option with the necessary educational requirements to make it a degree.

No amount valuable experience can be gained from practicing as a basic before paramedic. If an adequate field training program is in place, there is no valid argument against dual medic emergency ambulances..IMHO.

The whole basic vs medic thing is ludicrous..not worth the fight...it is what it is!! :shock:

[stcommodore]

I'm sure its been said but a degree track be it 2 years (paramedic only) or expanded 4 years with BLS training/EMS Managment mixed in with the ALS training is the goal this profession should strive for.

[JakeEMTP]

If the education was there, and it was harder to pass (not harder to get into school), then we would have the cream of the crop. I said if those conditions were in place, I wouldn't have an issue with entry level education being Paramedic. You're right, its not "skill", it's education. This is something that our field lacks,

What we don't have, is the testicular fortitude to bounce those candidates out that simply don't show proficiency. After doing all we can to work with those individuals, we simply should not just pass them through the class in hopes that the registry exam will weed them out, just because they are being sponsored by a fire dept. or have friends of friends who are influential.

I tried to edit this quote down some but couldn't bring myself to do it.

I was almost afraid to open this thread, simply because of the way it usually turns out. What a pleasant surprise to read through well written, intelligent posts. I commend you all.

Welcome sevenball842. you will find many posters on this site that subscribe to your way of thinking. Myself included.

[DwayneEMTP]

I tried to edit this quote down some but couldn't bring myself to do it.

I was almost afraid to open this thread, simply because of the way it usually turns out. What a pleasant surprise to read through well written, intelligent posts. I commend you all.

Welcome sevenball842. you will find many posters on this site that subscribe to your way of thinking. Myself included.

Yikes...ditto...where did you come from! (Not you Jake...grin...we know where you're from!)

Dwayne