Basic vs. Medic

[JakeEMTP]

I thought I was right once but then my wife corrected me.

Et tu Brute?

[JPINFV]

I thought I was right once but then my wife corrected me.

That's because women are evil.

[spoil:47cf1cdc09]

Women=Time and Money (Women=(time)(money))

Time=money (women=money^2)

Money is the root of all evil (money=evil^1/2)

therefore (women=(evil^1/2)^2)

women are evil evil (women=evil)[/spoil:47cf1cdc09]

[JPINFV]

Should basics be allowed to ride a primary 911 truck alone? I agree that they should not. Should they ride with a medic? Absolutely! Being able to learn the difference between sick and not sick, hurt and not hurt, is not something that you can be taught in a classroom. On the same token, compassion is certainly something that cannot be taught. If we are so focused on our skills, we tend to overlook the more simple tasks. A good assessment, comfort measures (blankets, pillows, ect...), and most of all a kind soothing conversation. These are not things that I simply think, these are things that I witness on a day to day basis.

The problem, though, is not just limited to 911 calls, but any use of an ambulance. I say this for two reasons. First off, the public will equate any ambulance with medical care regardless of who owns it and the type of calls they run. Second, there are plenty of nursing home->emergency department transports run by interfacility companies that should involve a paramedic first response. Since we can't seem to convince nursing homes to pick up the phone and dial 911 for paramedics, this is the only conceivable way of making that happen.

ruffems, I couldn't agree with you more. Our education system is certainly sub-par. The need for better instructors, longer classes, and yes, more clinical hours, should put us right where we need to be.

As for physicians, nurses, vets, ect..., look at how long their classes are. Look at how long their clinicals are in comparison to ours. That is where the difference lies. You substitute BLS experience with longer courses and more clinicals, then you have something there. But until then, the experience you gain from being a basic is invaluable in this field, and replaces the need for course reform.

The problem is that the analogy between EMS levels and healthcare/medical professionals is still valid. Requiring people to work as a basic prior to medic school is akin to putting a bandaid on an arterial bleed. Instead of requiring time as a basic, the focus should be placed on ensuring that medic programs provide quality education and clinical time.

The final note on EMS vs. Physicians, vets, RN's is this. Because of the amount of schooling and amount of clinicals that are required, they are considered by society to be "professionals". As of right now, we are not considered to be in a profession, our field is still just a job.

This won't change, though, until EMT-B's are eliminated as a prehospital provider.

[firedoc5]

Let me ask one question in regards to field skills.

Do you benefit from Field skills as an EMT when you get over 500 hours of field skills in your paramedic program.

What kind of field skills are we talking about here?

How to immobilize a fracture?

How to put oxygen on someone?

How to cover a wound?

I'd risk it to say that all those skills can be gained while in paramedic school.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uh, sorry, Ruff. But...Those are skills needed way before paramedic school. There's not enough time as it is with pharmacology, ACLS protocols (and cert.), you know, advanced kind of stuff. You MUST be proficient with the previous level before going on. And there are people out there that may have the hours, or even years of experience, but they lack the proficiency to advance, and they shouldn't be. I know there are those "old timers" there like me that remember that you had to be "nominated" to go on to a paramedic program. You just didn't get in because you wanted to.

(I'm all finished now)

[akroeze]

Why is it acceptable that someone practise independently when they are not proficient in their skills?

Because if you are saying that you need years to become proficient as an EMT-B then you are a danger BEFORE that time.

[firedoc5]

Why is it acceptable that someone practise independently when they are not proficient in their skills?

Because if you are saying that you need years to become proficient as an EMT-B then you are a danger BEFORE that time.

There's a difference between proficient and adequate. You can be adequate at what you do but not be proficient enough to advance. Clear as mud?

And yes, there are those that I've seen that have been adequate for years. But I wouldn't put them in back by themselves. We had one guy that always complained because after five or six years he was never scheduled as a Crew Chief. I asked him, "OK, what's JVD or what is COPD?" He couldn't remember...

[AZCEP]

Uh, sorry, Ruff. But...Those are skills needed way before paramedic school. There's not enough time as it is with pharmacology, ACLS protocols (and cert.), you know, advanced kind of stuff. You MUST be proficient with the previous level before going on. And there are people out there that may have the hours, or even years of experience, but they lack the proficiency to advance, and they shouldn't be. I know there are those "old timers" there like me that remember that you had to be "nominated" to go on to a paramedic program. You just didn't get in because you wanted to.

(I'm all finished now)

What is so difficult about the skills you mentioned that they couldn't be included into a full paramedic education?

The items that paramedic students get hung up on already needs more time to ensure that they are well understood. A few of the simpler skills, which should not have any bearing on the educational content provided, will not cause the current paramedic education to slide off the rails.

Force the incoming students to dedicate themselves to a full degree program from the start. Require a degree prerequisite courseload to be fulfilled prior to entrance to the paramedic program. Use the EMT, or BLS program as an introductory tract to give a taste of what they are signing up for. Your EMTs would still be obtaining their magical year of experience prior to their paramedic courses finishing, and they wouldn't be wasting their time with something they don't want to do. As a bonus, they would have a full, or associate's degree upon completion.

[akroeze]

[firedoc5]

The items that paramedic students get hung up on already needs more time to ensure that they are well understood. A few of the simpler skills, which should not have any bearing on the educational content provided, will not cause the current paramedic education to slide off the rails.

Force the incoming students to dedicate themselves to a full degree program from the start. Require a degree prerequisite courseload to be fulfilled prior to entrance to the paramedic program. Use the EMT, or BLS program as an introductory tract to give a taste of what they are signing up for. Your EMTs would still be obtaining their magical year of experience prior to their paramedic courses finishing, and they wouldn't be wasting their time with something they don't want to do.

Sometime's it's the "simpler skills" that can trip you up. Unfortunately you do have to learn things you don't want to learn or want to do. I know, it sux.

I'm always amazed when someone says that they went EMT-A, to EMT-I, to EMT-P in 12 to 18 months. And I've seen some of them struggle because of that. It use to be you had to have three years as a "A", to get into a "I" class. And had to be a certified "I" for one year to get into a "P" class. So a minimum of four years. I'm not going to go into detail all the other criteria needed also to advance.

But, I know a lot of Basic's that can run circles around some paramedics, especially with a trauma assessment. And yes, it's true when they say EMT-A's save Paramedics. But a good Paramedic should save and support Basic's and I's also. It all comes around

[firedoc5]