Why are we worth less than CNA's?

[Just Plain Ruff]

ok, it's like this.

CNA's get paid more in hospital settings because they are a member of the nursing profession and as such they get paid more. NOt always but Wendy is finding out that it's that way where she is.

Since cna's are in the nursing profession they have a group of nurses and a organization that will fight for them.

We as emt's and medics do not have that professional organization behind us and are still considered to be outsiders to many nurses so we will be paid less.

Plus, the director of nursing at the hospital helps set the wage scale and go figure, She's a nurse so who is she going to pay more? CNA's or EMT's?

[4kids]

Ok, I'm not sure what the EMT-B pay scale is here now, as I've not run in a few years. But I do have my CNA.

Okay I needed between classroom and practical 150 hours for my CNA (back in 1988) and when I stopped working a few years ago in the lockdown dementia unit in a vets home I at that time was making more oer hour than my husband who was working as a paramedic.

When I took the EMT-B class back in 1992 I needed combined classroom and ER practical a total of 11 hours. Only 10 of those were practical hours.

When your licensed in the 2 you need to make sure you don't cross the lines between the scopes of practice. As a EMT I can give O2, as a CNA its illegal, I can adjust the cannula but I can't change the oxygen flow. But in the next sense how many EMT's can do bladder scans?

I'm rambling, just tell me to shut up.

I took

[Fifthkid]

She had a misstype in her post the basic emt was 111 hours not 11 now it's up to 140

[reaper]

As stated they are two different markets. But don't be upset about it. Being a CNA is not that great. But, they do make good money.

If FL. you can get trained in two weeks, in most NH's!!!!

[Just Plain Ruff]

yeah you can get trained in nursing homes for cna's just like you can get trained in the fire station for EMT.

2 weeks for cna, not a bad payoff if you consider the comparison of pay to education.

Plus, no offense to the cna's of the world but even a cave man can do it.

I can't seem to remember the last rocket scientist I met who was a CNA.

[Dustdevil]

yeah you can get trained in nursing homes for cna's just like you can get trained in the fire station for EMT.

LMAO!

At least the CNAs are being trained in a healthcare facility by healthcare professionals. When EMTs can all say that, then we can start comparing apples to apples.

[JPINFV]

I'm surprised that no one has hit the supply vs demand answer yet. Simply put, a lot more people want to be an EMT-B than want to be a CNA. A high demand with a low supply means higher wages.

[VentMedic]

2 weeks for cna, not a bad payoff if you consider the comparison of pay to education.

Plus, no offense to the cna's of the world but even a cave man can do it.

I can't seem to remember the last rocket scientist I met who was a CNA.

But, if you consider the amount of patients each CNA is responsible for when it comes to cleaning, feeding and monitoring each day especially in the NHs, that money is not nearly enough. Usually the CNA has 15 - 25 patients to look after per shift and is expected to keep track of all of them to keep them from falling and safe. It is a difficult job and turnover is high. You have some EMTs/Paramedics complaining when they have to transport more than 3 patients 1:1 (or actually 2:1) per 24 hour shift in some threads.

Then, you get all the people who don't understand the job complaining about lousy care in the NHs. If you think a job is so easy a caveman can do it, then don't complain about the care in the NH when they do hire the equivalent of a caveman to do it. The CNA must put up with stressed patients, family members and "know it all" EMTs/Paramedics who all take out their frustrations about anything from poor care or missing the football game on whoever happens to be nearby.

At least the CNA education is specific to the job and that is what may be what is needed to take care of the patient. Hiring someone who does not know how to feed an elderly patient or how to safely bathe them in a shower chair or how keep a patient from getting pressure sores just because they think they are just as good doesn't cut it. People should have an understanding that what they are trained for and what they may think they can do are not necessarily the same.

One little point to clarify about wages and unions. CNAs are not represented by nursing organizations or nursing unions. If they belong to any union if it the same one as housekeepers and dietary workers. Florida is a Right to Work state so it is doubtful they belong to a union. In California, it is usually SEIU (Service Employees International Union) that represents them.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Vent, actually my wife was a cna at the hospital we both worked at and then she went on to get her lpn.

What I meant by the cave man comment is that if you do a 2 week class on CNA then a cave man can do the job.

Now if you put the CNA thru a 4 week or longer course then I'd agree that you need a higher caliber of person for the job but whatever. I'm just talking here and ranting.

I rarely complain about the level of care at the nursing homes, I've known a lot of people who work at nursing homes and they are very committed to their patients. A lot of time these residents become like a 2nd family to the cna and nursing staff.

It's not surprising that some of the most contented people in the health care field are CNA's as they get to know their residents better than even the lpn's or nurses do.

I have always found that if I can find the CNA who is taking care of Mr. Johnson and ask them questions I will usually get a clearer picture from them of what is happening than from the RN who is responsible not only for Mr. Johnson but also 98 or 100 other mr johnsons.

I have respect for the CNA field but there are bad cna's as well as bad emt's and medics. It's a universal problem.

But I do get frustrated at the care in nursing homes because I know that that care can be done better but with the resources of what the nursing home has I understand.

Heck, I can also complain about current care in EMS because I know what the constraints apply to EMS agencies out there.

We all do the best we can with the resources we have. It's our job to do that.

[VentMedic]

Now if you put the CNA thru a 4 week or longer course then I'd agree that you need a higher caliber of person for the job but whatever. I'm just talking here and ranting.

Not all CNA programs are 2 weeks. Although, that is 80 hours of mostly clinical experience with CPR being additional. The EMT is 110 hours with 20 hrs of ride time which may not have much patient contact and only 10 hours ED time. Some of the CNA programs are closer to 3 to 4 weeks which makes it between 120 to 160 hours depending on the program and specialty. Many CNAs get a basic education/training to get certified prior to applying and then another 40 - 80 hours once hired for their specialty; psych, rehab, ED, acute or long term care.

The Florida CNA test is both a written and performance. They are also required to have CEUs.

The CNA is required to have 1.0 hours of in-service per each calendar month or a total of 12 hours for a full calendar year.

Every 2 years, in-service hours shall include: HIV/AIDS, Infection Control; Domestic Violence; Documentation & Legal Aspects for CNAs; Resident Rights; Communication with impaired clients; CPR skills; and Medical Error Prevention/Safety. Specific agencies may have in-service requirements in addition to these.

http://www.doh.state.fl.us/mqa/cna/index.html

Of course, not all states, training programs or employers are equal.

In the hospital I also rely more on the CNAs than RNs on the med-surg/SNF/Rehab floors and make myself available to give inservices either formal or impromtu at their request. I have tried to encourage many CNAs to advance to nursing but most are very happy doing what they do. That is, if they have a good employer and working environment. Some NHs as well as hospitals can be slave mills for them.