Police telling EMS to "Stand down" RE:MVA

[Riblett]

I guess it would depend if the patient had told the police that he was unhurt and did not need an ambulance, and if I was the cop I would make darn sure someone else witnessed him and document that. That versus the cop deciding the patient did not need EMS rather than asking him.

If the patient has no complaints prior to EMS arrival and it was called in by some passing cell phone jockey then I don't see why they could not be canceled by PD or FD. They do it where I work.

[akroeze]

PD can cancel us..... not sure if FD can, never heard it happen but won't go so far as to say it won't happen.

[strippel]

Never really had a problem here.

The cops will always ask occupants. Usually, the call comes from a uninvolved party, so Fire and EMS get shipped. I have no problems going back home if the cops cancel us.

Every once and a while, we will get sent back, usually non-emergent for a sign off. Or... someone gets the idea to be sue happy, and claim injuries.

[firedoc5]

Never really had a problem here.

The cops will always ask occupants. Usually, the call comes from a uninvolved party, so Fire and EMS get shipped. I have no problems going back home if the cops cancel us.

Every once and a while, we will get sent back, usually non-emergent for a sign off. Or... someone gets the idea to be sue happy, and claim injuries.

That's what usually happened with us.

[Richard B the EMT]

FDNY EMS, and NYC Health and Hospitals Corporation EMS before the merger, had several incidents of NYPD canceling EMS responses, even when EMS was on the scene, but had not made patient contact.

Policy was enacted, that, if the patient had not left the scene by "other means" (feet, car, bus, subway, whatever), EMS had to, at minimum, hear the denial of request from the patient in person. Better yet, do a patient evaluation with running explanation that they could still sign the "Refused Medical Assistance" (RMA) on the call report.

If the crew did find something of concern, of course, they would make all attempts to convince the patient to go to the ED with them, or at least have someone take them to the ED, or their own doctor within the next 24 hours.

The usual mantra of "document, Document, DOCUMENT" would, of course, be fully in effect, but even so, if the RMA was signed, even with the knowledge of the OLMC MD agreeing with allowing that patient to RMA, EMS has been sued by the patient or their survivors.

I note Mobey specified the scenario as an MVA. In an instance like that, FDNY, FDNY EMS, and the NYPD, will all do their respective "thang" in dealing with each ones' specific areas of responsibility.

FDNY won't allow themselves to be canceled by another agency, once on the way, they will "continue in" to check things out for themselves.

EMS can advise the NYPD, on certain calls, that they won't be needed for that call, and return them (NYPD) "back" to 9-1-1 system availability.

[chelleak]

In Alaska things are somewhat rural. It use to be our troopers were all at least EMT1 certified (I wish they still had that requirement) so if they turned you around they knew what they were talking about. That's not the case anymore. As a general rule, the troopers will usually ask us to proceed to the scene even when they know the patient will refuse to make sure all the bases are covered. If we are cancelled by AST or PD then we can at our discretion (depending on pucker factor) continue to the scene.

[Richard B the EMT]

I almost forgot: NYPD nowadays will advise us that the patient is going to RMA, but as previously described is supposed to be the way it's done.

[Jyannotti308]

PD should not have that so, thats the same with fire scenes.... seen them get burned before.

OD Cancels us all the time but 99% of the time we are already on scene when they come up to the truck and say "no ones hurt, you can take a disregaurd"

JUSTIN

FF/NREMT-B

[CBEMT]

FT job: once dispatched, we are required to make the scene. If we can't find the patient, so be it. But we do not cancel enroute.

PT job: haven't run into it yet.

PD gets to 95% of accidents first. Why shouldn't they be able to? In my county, we have 3 diffrent dispatches. 10-50 PI, 10-50 PD, 10-50 Unkown. We only dispatch it as a PI if an occupant in the accident requests ambulance, or if a passerby sees obvious injuries.

There's this concept called NIMS. It's only a few years old.

[dahlio]

I almost forgot: NYPD nowadays will advise us that the patient is going to RMA, but as previously described is supposed to be the way it's done.

Typically PD will update, Pt. will be RMA'ing, but PD wants to cover their butts, which is good.