More Muslim Women Medics in U.K. Refusing to Follow Hygiene

[hammerpcp]

Yea, I'm sorry here, but patient protection comes before any "rights" you have to free practice of your faith. If you don't want to bare your arms, then go work in psych or podiatry.

Or the US or Canada.

Where did you find this article may I ask? The editor was having a nap when this one came across his/her desk evidently. It doesn't lend a whole lot of credibility to the article or publishing organization.

[Dustdevil]

I am not ignorant of the vast differences between varied Muslim cultures. I never see women under a veil in Iraq. Most of them are wearing jeans, in fact. My point was that it is unreasonable for them to expect accommodations from the western world that most of their own world is unwilling to grant them. We don't allow them to practise polygamy here (or in the UK), so obviously it is permissible to put restrictions upon them that clash with their beliefs. Why should hand washing be any different? Why, all of a sudden, is this one thing untouchable?

My other point is that it is hypocritical and disingenuous to claim that your devout faith prohibits you from conforming to the rules of civilised society, when there are obviously many other tenets of that faith that you choose to ignore. Either you're devout to that religion, or you are not. I don't play this half-arse, pick and choose the rules you want to follow brand of religion. Go big or go home. Literally.

[firedoc5]

As with all religions, there are so many different levels of belief within the same religion.

To say and assume they all are covered head to toe smacks of ignorance.

Turkey, Bosnia, Macedonia, Albania, numerous African countries...all loaded with Muslims who do not take that hardline attitude. I work with all of these groups everyday and quite honestly for a few months, never even knew they were Muslim.

Remember the Balkan war, we fought for these Muslims so they would not be persecuted.

As far as saying in their own country they would not even be medics....WRONG, guess again. Here in Afghanistan we have female medics that are Muslim as they are the only ones to tend to the women that do not come out from under the veil.

Also, I believe I posted an article on here about the first graduating class of medics from Dubai that came to America to learn how to be medics so they could take it back to their country.

So, aside from the ignorant comments I made reference to, yes I agree that they should have to wash the same as everyone else and roll their sleeves in order to do so.

Otherwise find a job that does not compromise my health standards for your beliefs.

I guess the comparison of different sects of Muslim is the same as different sects of those of the Jewish religion. Whether they are Orthodox or Conservative with different beliefs and rituals they are still Jewish. So I guess you are saying there are different sects of Muslims with different beliefs and rituals. One sect may have more restrictions with their women than others. A family friend of ours has a PhD. in Theology, guess I needed to listen to him more.

BTW: Just because someone here said something that's not correct doesn't mean that what was said was ignorant, nor the person saying isn't ignorant.

[DwayneEMTP]

BTW: Just because someone here said something that's not correct doesn't mean that what was said was ignorant, nor the person saying isn't ignorant.

But very often it does. Ignorant is not synonymous with 'stupid' for most of us.

Ignorant Ig"no*rant, a. [F., fr. L. ignorans, -antis, p. pr. of ignorare to be ignorant. See Ignore.]

1. Destitute of knowledge; uninstructed or uninformed; untaught; unenlightened.

He that doth not know those things which are of use for him to know, is but an ignorant man, whatever he may know besides. --Tillotson.

2. Unacquainted with; unconscious or unaware; -- used with of.

Ignorant of guilt, I fear not shame. --Dryden.

3. Unknown; undiscovered. [Obs.]

Ignorant concealment. --Shak.

Alas, what ignorant sin have I committed? --Shak.

4. Resulting from ignorance; foolish; silly.

His shipping, Poor ignorant baubles! -- on our terrible seas, Like eggshells moved. --Shak.

The subjects and material of which I'm ignorant are endless...but I'm picking away at it..

Dwayne

[firedoc5]

But very often it does. Ignorant is not synonymous with 'stupid' for most of us.

The subjects and material of which I'm ignorant are endless...but I'm picking away at it..

Dwayne

Guess I've always considered the word ignorant as worse than stupid. :confused3: Perhaps the meaning is different depending on where you live. :-k

[Just Plain Ruff]

Ignorant is to be not knowing of something

Stupid is to be not knowing of something because you choose not to know it.

I thought that muslim women were not allowed to be doctors or anything that is traditionally a man's domain. So being the fact that they are going against this major tenet of islamic faith doesn't that negate the religious connotation?

I'm reading this book called the "Politically incorrect guide to islam" and it's pretty interesting. Unfortunately there is not a rebuttal book other than the Koran out there.

I like to get both sides of the issues or topic. Anyone have any suggestions for a rebuttal book other than the koran?

[Dustdevil]

I like to get both sides of the issues or topic. Anyone have any suggestions for a rebuttal book other than the koran?

Unfortunately, the vast majority of those practices that many Muslims believe are an imperative tenet of their faith do not even come from the Koran. They are not found anywhere in there. They are just random rules -- kind of like state and local laws -- made up by Mohammad and his successors, expressing their own personal views, but not based upon the Word of Allah. This is very much like what happens in Christianity, with different sects making up their own rules and ceremony that is not based upon the Word of God. It is also a major source of conflict within Islam, resulting in the sectarian violence we see in the Arab world today. They can't agree on the Word of Allah any better than we can.

Consequently, the Koran itself does not tell the whole story, just as the bible does not.

[Scaramedic]

Let me add some gasoline to this fire.

This has nothing to do with Islam. It is about power. There is a movement by certain clerics to do away with secular government. They see the world, as well as many Christian and Jewish leaders, as needing a government based on the tenets of whatever version of God's word they believe. Issues like this are simply a way to pursue their goals, one step at a time.

In can be compared to issues like prayer in school or the ten commandments at city halls here in the states. In the UK the National Healthcare system is a prime target for such power plays. If the state bends to the will of one groups religious views on a small issue they eventually could bend on larger issues. A domino effect if you will. People as a group tend to follow the easiest and less controversial path. As long as the trains run on time they let the government decide for them. This is the reason the founding fathers of many countries have left religion out of government. Let the people choose their faith and the tenets within rather than big brother telling us what faith to follow.

All of us, Muslim, Jew, Christian or Hindu must fight against any one religion dictating our governments policies. We must not let the right or left wing leaders of any faith dictate our beliefs.

Peace,

Marty

Hammer, it was an article from The Telegraph in the UK.

[JPINFV]

In can be compared to issues like prayer in school or the ten commandments at city halls here in the states.

While not trying to be too nitpicky or too far off topic, I think the problem with the Ten Commandments is that it is both a religious symbol and a historical legal symbol. It is the latter which gives it credence to be in a court building. It would be different, for example, if someone was trying to put up a monument to the Beatitudes instead of the Ten Commandments in a judicial building.

[Dustdevil]

Excellent observations and conclusions, Marty.

While not trying to be too nitpicky or too far off topic, I think the problem with the Ten Commandments is that it is both a religious symbol and a historical legal symbol. It is the latter which gives it credence to be in a court building.

Problem is, only a couple of those commandments are actually translated to our laws. The fact that about seventy to eighty percent of the commandments are not law detracts from their credence. Now, if all -- or at least most -- of the commandments were law, there might be a more valid argument for their historical value status. As soon as the majority of Americans vote democratically to enact all ten commandments as federal law, I'll concede that they have a legitimate place in the courthouse. Til then, I say move them out of the way and make more room for me to stand and wait to renew my licence plates.