Just Plain Ruff Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 I have read everyone of the posts in this thread and I humbly request that the people fighting here go to their respective corners and have it out in PM's. This is going no-where fast. one person discounting the other person and so on and so on. You can say you won't read any more but the desire comes back to you like a bad case of the runs, you just can't stay out of the toilet.
disco77 Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Ok there is a very, very simple way to end this nonsense. Zippy, i challenge you too find us just one nurse colleague here, or from any other forum to support your claims, after all IF you are correct in what you say, it won't be too difficult to find another nurse to back you up, will it, so i will wait here with bated breath for the flood of UK nurses, rushing to support you.....NOT !
Canadian Caesar Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Oh... One more thing. Try to find one with a double-digit post count...
disco77 Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Fair point, though i was hardly qualified to make it eh!
WelshMedic Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 Well here's one UK trained RN that definitely doesn't agree....but then you all knew that anyway...... WM
disco77 Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 Wheres zippy, this threads gone awfully quiet
nremtp Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 I think this thread should be allowed to run because it raises a very important point that affects us all. You have still failed to answer my question though zippy. Your entire argument stems from the fact that nurses are registered but Technicians aren't. Do you therefore think that simply because a Physiotherapist or Chiropodist is registered that they are also more competent and appropriately qualified to deal with an emergency over a Technician? A PGD is only valid in the workplace and only for a set group of circumstances, you cannot deviate from these. You cannot for example give morphine to lower blood pressure if the PGD is only for chest pain. A PGD is essentially a document signed by a doctor, pharmacist and senior nurse giving you permission to administer a drug in a set circumstance. This is called a protocol, something which you attack US Paramedics for having to follow. This is not autonomy! Autonomy is having freedom to administer a drug or perform a procedure when you and you alone deem it fit. NOT when a protocol says you can/must do something. You are not a nurse prescriber, you do not have any prescribing rights therefore you have no right to administer any medication outside of your workplace. If you take drugs from my ambulance or my bag and try to take over the care of my patient then you are committing a criminal offence. Those drugs are there for me and my crewmate, not some jumped up off duty nurse. You have no authority or legal power to use those drugs on anyone. Pre hospitally, you are about as qualified as a first aider and have the same rights if not less. If you honestly believe that you can take drugs from your workplace and use them pre-hospitally then I hope you do so because when you die you will go to hell where you will be eternally spanked by the baby jesus. Failure to recognise limitations is the biggest cause of error in the health service and inability to recognise human limitiation is the biggest cause of aviation related accidents. You zippy, need to recognise your limitations and scope of practice. You are not allowed to administer or prescribe any drugs autonomously, you cannot simply give a paramedic (or even technician) level drug without direct reference to a doctor. Technicians can give schedule 7 drugs as they are administering them in the course of their employment. You cannot just walk into a pharmacy and demand a drug for a patient, a paramedic on the other hand can! Your authority to practice is through your employer which is why when you are in St Johns, you are no more than any other St Johns ambulance attendant. A Technician's authority to practice is also through their employer via the medical director. A Paramedic however, is licensed to prescribe, administer and supply medication through statute. They have the freedom to practice and make their own decisions, although they are accountable to a higher body who judge those decisions (sometimes unfairly). This is the difference, freedom to practice, make own decisions rather than having to seek permission or approval. A written PGD or spoken direction from a doctor is NOT AUTONOMY! A legal staute empowering one to make decisions and administer drugs IS! Heck, even chiropodists can prescribe more drugs than you can!
firedoc5 Posted February 12, 2008 Author Posted February 12, 2008 Like Ridryder said, there's arses in every job. I'd say though that there are way more arses on ambulances and fire trucks than in the ER. My best story about bad nurses would be the time we responded to a diabetic stopped along the roadway. While we were doing our thing, this car pulls up and a woman gets ought. She's wearing scrubs, and she identifies herself as a nursing student. She then proceeds to tell us what to do. My partner and I were looking at each other, like "What the @^@$#^!?" I've come across situations like that. One was proudly stating she was a Nurses Aid student and that we should do as she said. :jerk:
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