scott33 Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 And for those of you not familiar with him. He volunteers for the St John Ambulance, an organisation that provides event cover, mostly. They are looked down upon by professional EMS in the UK (that too has a history - they provided cover when EMS went on strike in the early 80's for better pay and conditions). I suspect this is where his attitude stems from. But who knows, since I've asked him to explain himself repeatedly in the past and have yet to get a decent answer, what motivates him? WM Yeah, it has to be said... The reason why Zippy is so full if it here is that nobody knows what SJA is. I am not going to get into a Johnny-hating debate because as has already been said, there is a lot of that form professional UK staff, and his attitude is not typical of all of them. However, a few facts...They are primarily an "event cover" organisation, covering things like the London Marathon, football matches, open air concerts etc. They are a Christian orientated charity, volunteers who DO NOT train to any level above EMT-B in spite of taking perhaps several years to achieve this. Their equivalent of Basic EMT have a considerably lower level of skills they can apply to the pt (no traction splints, blood sugars, epi-injectors, acticated charcoal, LMA / combitube etc. No lungs sounds, no nebulized meds for asthmatics.). They are however, the masters of the sling and swath. Although their training is limited, SJA will happily take on people who are already health care professionals (HCP's), whether Paramedics, Doctors or RN's. This is where Zippy comes into play, and this is where the truth is fogged about the SJA volunteer's scope of practice; something which Zippy will so readily exploit. He remains the only RN in the UK (as quoted on this forum) to be permitted to take his drugs out of his hospital, and into his ambulance for his standby work, all with complete autonomy. He knows most of what he posts here would not fly in the UK forums.
zippyRN Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 [<snip>Yeah, it has to be said... The reason why Zippy is so full if it here is that nobody knows what SJA is. I am not going to get into a Johnny-hating debate, because as has already been said, there is a lot of that form professional UK staff. However, a few "facts"...They are primarily an event organisation, see previous post SJA is not an event EMS organisation covering things like the London Marathon, football matches, open air concerts etc. SJA does undertake this work and often 'footprints' all EMS activity in the area surrounding the event as well ... attending calls passed on by the statutory service They are a Christian orientated charity, incorrect volunteers who DO NOT train to any level above EMT-B in spite of taking perhaps several years to achieve this. incorrect members are required to demonstrate competency as a First aider / advanced First aider before progressing to ambulance training , thenyare then required to consolidate experience at the PTA level before progressing to ETA level. this has been determined by the Paramedics, and other Health Professionals who undertook the curriculum design dfor the current Ambulance training package Their equivalent of Basic EMT have a considerably lower level of skills they can apply to the pt (no traction splints, incorrect - traction splints are an outcome for ETA levle crews if thecounty uses them - because not all NHS services use tractionsplints blood sugars, for very good governance reasons , in the same way that not all nHS emergency Ambulance personnel are permitted to undertake this epi-injectors, incorrect acticated charcoal, i'm not aware of any NHS ambulance services giving charcoal either - in part due to shorter transport times and also in light of UK clinical guidelines (it's not a JRCALC drug) LMA / combitube etc. LMA not a role undertaken by NHS techs in many services combitube not used in the NHS ... No lungs sounds, incorrect no nebulized meds for asthmatics.) because there is no legal route for supply at present , in fact NHS use by techncicians is in a legal grey area even if the MHRA have said to individuals that they would not persue the matter . They are however, the masters of the sling and swath. Although their training is limited, SJA will happily take on people who are already health care professionals (HCP's), whether Paramedics, Doctors or RN's. This is where Zippy comes into play, and this is where the truth is fogged about the SJA volunteer's scope of practice. He remains the only RN in the UK (as quoted on this forum) to be permitted to take his drugs out of his hospital, and into his ambulance for his standby work, all with complete autonomy. incorrect statement He knows most of what he posts here would not fly in the UK forums. pull t'other one it;s got bells on ...
scott33 Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 So you have absolutely nothing to back up your series of "incorrect" statements other than your opinion. Citation would be nice.
Eydawn Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 Detailed history of St. John's Ambulance stemming back to "Ancient Jerusalem" UK SJA HISTORY And, "what we do" in *THEIR OWN WORDS*: SJA: WHAT WE DO Peruse at leisure, and decide for yourself. My opinion: They're the equivalent of the Jolly Volley in the US. All volunteer members, mostly do event coverage (sorry, it's what I got from the website... if it ain't so, fix the site), really enthusiastic about getting younger members on board... and while they may have a doc here or there, most of em are the UK equivalent of the EMT-B. *sighs* can we move on now? What was that about not feeding bears nor trolls.... Wendy CO EMT-B
Eydawn Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 And to counter my own adivice... Zips, I've seen professional codes of conduct and legal requirement like that one before. Sorry, but it doesn't say that when your RN steps on my ambo it becomes his/her patient, no matter how much you might INTERPRET it to be so. You may feel like the highest level of care and medical authority, but you are not necessarily LEGALLY so. Put it this way. At my work, I'm not functioning as an EMT-B. Do I still have all the ethical obligations? Hell yes. If I feel strongly that a client of mine needs XYZ medical intervention (which either I or another healthcare provider could provide) and my supervisor, (who is not an EMT-B or higher) decides otherwise, *I am in the wrong* if I provide that care. Legally, the super has the power. Wendy CO EMT-B
zippyRN Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 vision , mission and values http://www.sja.org.uk/sja/about-us/vision-...and-values.aspx not the complete lack of religious reference in the 'mission' Annual review and report http://www.sja.org.uk/sja/about-us/annual-reports.aspx relationship between Order of St John ( which asa british order of chivalry is a 'christian ' organistion and SJA http://www.orderofstjohn.org/sja.htm SJA activities http://www.sja.org.uk/sja/about-us/our-work.aspx Civil Contingencies - http://www.sja.org.uk/sja/about-us/our-work/flood-help.aspx http://www.sja.org.uk/sja/what-we-do/emergency-response.aspx First responders http://www.sja.org.uk/sja/about-us/our-wor...nfield-nfr.aspx http://www.firstresponders.fusiveweb.co.uk/ http://www.wcas.nhs.uk/services/resp_stjohn.htm SJA lay members and medication adminstration http://member.sja.org.uk/hqc/download.asp?...006&doc=PDF http://member.sja.org.uk/hqc/download.asp?...006&doc=PDF training outcomes and current training doctrine (zip file) http://member.sja.org.uk/hqc/download.asp?...007&doc=ZIP civil contingencies/ Ambulance support http://www.sja.org.uk/sja/about-us/our-wor...tim-helped.aspx http://www.sja.org.uk/sja/what-we-do/emergency-response.aspx SJA and peads retrievals -http://www.cats.nhs.uk/pages/meet_team.asp#3 picture of one the cats ambulances http://www.ukemergency.co.uk/ambulance/P1140196.jpg SJA and ambulance support http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/5238326.stm http://www.communigate.co.uk/brad/sjab/ other syllabus materials to address things such as traction splint are not freely available on the web, part of the problem of having relevant content secured...
scott33 Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 Detailed history of St. John's Ambulance stemming back to "Ancient Jerusalem" UK SJA HISTORY And, "what we do" in *THEIR OWN WORDS*: SJA: WHAT WE DO Peruse at leisure, and decide for yourself. My opinion: They're the equivalent of the Jolly Volley in the US. Yup, straight from the horse's mouth. "Volunteers", "event work", "charity", "Christian" Though unlike the US volies, they do not follow the same curriculum as the professionals, and they do not even train to EMT-basic really enthusiastic about getting younger members on board Yes (and I will avoid the nasty comments circulating on other forums about that) they do start them young, which is good. But it's all the wrong stuff they are being taught, such as militaristic nonsense. *sighs* can we move on now? What was that about not feeding bears nor trolls.... Wendy CO EMT-B Sure, I think all relevant point have been proven So what about these bloody nurses then? 'effing useless or what
zippyRN Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 <snip> Yes (and I will avoid the nasty comments circulating on other forums about that) they do start them young, which is good. But it's all the wrong stuff they are being taught, such as militaristic nonsense. not UK SJA ... looks like singapore or possibly Canada let's carefully skirt around uncle sam's misguided children and the 'silent drill team' ]
scott33 Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 not UK SJA ... looks like singapore or possibly Canada Same old stuff all the youth squads have to do, such as the UK "Badgers". That, and standing in the pissing rain with a collection tin, or sneaking in little group chit-chats about Christ. What's up with teaching them more skills applicable to prehospital care instead?
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