stcommodore Posted February 14, 2008 Posted February 14, 2008 Not the topic at hand, but if we asume the average of 80% BLS/20% ALS in an high call volume area then your statment is just silly. A solid and non-tampered with BLS level can handle a majority of the calls in an urban/suburban system.
Dustdevil Posted February 14, 2008 Posted February 14, 2008 Not the topic at hand, but if we asume the average of 80% BLS/20% ALS in an high call volume area then your statment is just silly. It's your math that is silly. Eighty percent of all patients didn't really require an ambulance at all. Heck, eighty percent of all ER and doctor's office patients would have been just fine with nothing but OTC meds from Wal Mart. So, should we push for fewer hospitals and doctors and more Wal Marts? And what about those patients that really did need EMS (or a doctor or an ER)? Are they statistically insignificant? Is it okay that they suffer and die because you prefer to tailor your system to those who need it least? Why exactly did you get into EMS if it wasn't to help those who need it most? Silly is too kind a word for that idiotic notion. The biggest problem is, with nothing more than three weeks of night school first aid training, our BLS providers don't even know what they don't know. How exactly, if you (in the generic sense) have never been educated in ALS, do you even know when ALS is indicated? You don't. If you lack the education to do a thorough diagnostic assessment on your patient, and you can't even put a name to your patient's condition, can you possibly determine what care that condition requires? You can't. Ninety percent of your "80 percent" don't require a single "skill" that an EMT offers, except for transportation. Would you argue that we should also have non-medical ambulances responding to emergencies to determine if BLS is really needed? If not, then you invalidate your own argument for multiple levels. Despite the unfortunate fact that much of what the public calls us for is not a true emergency, the fact remains that we are established to provide EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICE. That means that the public expects us to be prepared for that twenty-percent of patients who really needs us. If you are staffing your service with nothing but EMTs because most of your runs are not true emergencies, you are FAILing to live up to your commitment, and FAILing to function professionally. A solid and non-tampered with BLS level can handle a majority of the calls in an urban/suburban system. WTF does that mean? What the hell is a "non-tampered with" BLS level? :?
NREMT-Basic Posted February 16, 2008 Posted February 16, 2008 Why not take BP cuffs away from basics too while your at it since they can't start a fluid bolus either? A lower level of education doesn't make the information any less valuable. Even if an EMT-B is unable to do anything about it having the information to the hospital prior to a patients arrival is worthwhile. Besides there are many places where bls is able to do something for an unconscious diabetic. You will get a lot of folks here who believe quite literally that a Basic should do nothing but do heavy lifting, clean things and drive the rig. I don't happen to be of that mindset, but there are plenty here who are. And just to make you feel better, here in IL, the ILDOPH-EMS division has added a new protocol that allows Basics to start hydration only IV lines after a course in IV access and hemodynamics. Its up to each EMS division in the state now as to whether they will allow its use. But there you have it. I cant wait to there to roars of the paragods over this one. I think it is a good idea and am already sitting back in delight in the full knowledge that medics all over will be jumping up and down in their seats screaming "that's ours, that's ours." All I can say is get over it. Here we are also trained to use glucometers and administer either glucose or glucagon if the situations warrants it. I know, a lot of medics are going to be screaming over that toy as well, but, tough rocks kids, the horse is out of the barn. I wont be posting any further on this, I just wanted to spread the love and see how many medics stroke out.
akroeze Posted February 16, 2008 Posted February 16, 2008 I wont be posting any further on this, I just wanted to spread the love and see how many medics stroke out. So you admit to making a post for the sole purpose of causing trouble? That is the definition of trolling and has been reported as such. Please note that this is not a comment about what you said, but the reason you said it.
NREMT-Basic Posted February 16, 2008 Posted February 16, 2008 So you admit to making a post for the sole purpose of causing trouble? That is the definition of trolling and has been reported as such. Please note that this is not a comment about what you said, but the reason you said it. Its no more trouble causing that medics constantly bashing Basics or FFs. If admin sees it as trolling and wants to ban me, more power to 'em. It must have upset your paragod sensibilities....just goes to prove a point. Its not really about us doing it that bothers medics, its the idea that we can do some of what you do, and since there is no legitimate complaint to be made against Basics starting non-med IVs, you "turn me in." Good for you. Basically what I was saying is that higher powers understand that there is no reason that Basics cannot be taught to cath a vein. You got bent about it, didnt want to admit that I said you would and you did, so you ran to teacher. You just proved my point.
JPINFV Posted February 16, 2008 Posted February 16, 2008 Ok, seriously now, do you have a point past ad hominem attacks? You do realize that criticizing the EMT-Basic level is not the same as criticizing the providers who make up that level? since there is no legitimate complaint to be made against Basics starting non-med IVs, you "turn me in." Ok, how about the fact that there is, in general, no reason to start a non-medication IV. How about the fact that the EMT-B level lacks any sort of educational background to understand the affect that extra fluids have on the body. Just wondering, did the name "Starling" ever come up in your basic education or the IV cert?
NREMT-Basic Posted February 16, 2008 Posted February 16, 2008 Ok, seriously now, do you have a point past ad hominem attacks? You do realize that criticizing the EMT-Basic level is not the same as criticizing the providers who make up that level? Ok, how about the fact that there is, in general, no reason to start a non-medication IV. How about the fact that the EMT-B level lacks any sort of educational background to understand the affect that extra fluids have on the body. Just wondering, did the name "Starling" ever come up in your basic education or the IV cert? If the standing order is for a fluid bolus via IV, its doesnt matter who starts it. Starting the IV line takes about as much skill as starting a 3.5 inch line on a fire hydrant. Its a technical skill that I have seen paragods botch time and time again. Why shouldnt we get the fun of screwing up the same things they screw up. I mean if I have seen a medic take five sticks, then there must not be much skill involved. Its must all be luck. Who's to say you are luckier than I am? Seriously, I have the basics of hemodynamics down, lets just move on. What i predicated would happen has happend which is medics whining about us taking away their toys.
JPINFV Posted February 16, 2008 Posted February 16, 2008 Oh, so if a MEDIC botches it, it must obviously be some that basics should be able to attempt also. After all, it's all luck. Oh, by the way, I'm not a medic and I don't exactly remember my basic class covering the basics of hemodynamics past "blood goes round and round pushed by the heart." Keep trolling though.
brentoli Posted February 16, 2008 Author Posted February 16, 2008 If the standing order is for a fluid bolus via IV, its doesnt matter who starts it. Starting the IV line takes about as much skill as starting a 3.5 inch line on a fire hydrant. Its a technical skill that I have seen paragods botch time and time again. Why shouldnt we get the fun of screwing up the same things they screw up. I mean if I have seen a medic take five sticks, then there must not be much skill involved. Its must all be luck. Who's to say you are luckier than I am? Seriously, I have the basics of hemodynamics down, lets just move on. What i predicated would happen has happend which is medics whining about us taking away their toys. I have heard of some botched heart caths, lets let the nurses in there now and start doing them. What about bothced tooth extractions, they happen. Leave it to the dental hygentist. Botched war? Screw the presidet, the Secretary of Education can handle it.
DwayneEMTP Posted February 16, 2008 Posted February 16, 2008 Man NREMT-Basic, you used to have some great posts... I'm sorry to see you turn into an angry, illogical, one dimensional baby. I'll miss your intelligence here. Dwayne
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