and you thought it was bad when BLS was pushing meds...

[Dustdevil]

We try to have yearly health fairs. Try to get the kids and parents involved in the prevention of these things.

Just once, I'd like to see some BLS volly squad at one of these "health fairs" telling people the truth. Telling people that they don't have paramedics, or any kind of full-time medical professionals staffing their ambulances, and exactly why. Truthfully.

If half the effort that is wasted on promoting vollies and half-arse ALS-for-BLS measures in this country was spent on educating people on how pitiful their EMS really is, something positive could happen. Instead, we have exactly what you see here, which is otherwise intelligent people arguing over what size Band-Aid to apply to an arterial bleed.

[VentMedic]

DustDevil,

With all respect, I know your opinion on Vollies. You've made good points.

But, even in areas with excellent paid EMS services, we still have children dying needlessly because of ego trips within the school systems, EMS and legislative B.S.

Epipens and AEDs should be accessible. Inhalers, diabetic meds or whatever should also be easily accessible to the child if they can administer it themselves or another qualified person can assist.

[Scaramedic]

I'm shocked they have Epi-pens. Here, because of lawsuits schools nurses can't even a child Tylenol. Seems to be a good idea though.

[ccmedoc]

Just once, I'd like to see some BLS volly squad at one of these "health fairs" telling people the truth. Telling people that they don't have paramedics, or any kind of full-time medical professionals staffing their ambulances, and exactly why. Truthfully.

We run full time, paid, 24/7/365 ALS in this area. All are private....absolutely NO volunteer action. The fairs are only for the schools and students. Included is fire safety, DARE, and first aid/medical Q and A....

Not really sure what that rant was about??

[Dustdevil]

Not really sure what that rant was about??

Well, it definitely was not about you or your system. You just brought something up that triggered a related thought in my head. I didn't mean to imply, by quoting you, that your system was the point of my rant.

Your post, along with VentMedic's post just came together to make another point, which is the reason so many people think we need these Band Aids is because there aren't qualified medical personnel on site or close by. It just seems to me that, instead of asking what we can do without them, we should be asking why they aren't there, and demand that the situation change. There SHOULD be a nurse at ever school. And ALS EMS in the community too.

It just continues to boggle my mind how many people roll over and accept whatever crap deal their community hands them, and are willing to be pacified by all these feel-good measures, rather than simply stand up and fight for the right thing in the first place.

[AMESEMT]

I kind of agree with Dust on this. But I see both sides of the debate.

Yes it is a good idea with the proper training on its use. The medication could and probably has saved lives by being in the AED box. I think that you need strict guidelines on its use and protocols on what to do if it is needed. Someone brought up the point that if epi is given then EMS should be called. I would be curious to see what guidelines and protocols they have in place for its use and ensuring it is still in date.

Dust brings up a good point about someone thinking an adult is having anaphylaxis when they are actually having an MI, due to the cookbook S&S for its use. It could, and probably would kill them. Also, don't most kids who are allergic to something carry it? The people I know that have that bad of an allergy do carry the epi pen with them at all times. Yea, you can have those that have been exposed but have not had the reaction yet (this is where the pen would be good in the AED box).

Like most people I think it is a good idea, but needs some strict guidelines to go with it if you are going to have it in the school.

Just my 2 cents.

Ames

[ccmedoc]

... There SHOULD be a nurse at ever school. And ALS EMS in the community too...

I wholeheartedly agree. The school board and their constituents, however, disagree. We (concerned parents and professionals) present this at every school board meeting and administration meeting, and this is what we get..AED boxes and epi-pens, first aid kits, Tylenol, Motrin, and a phone number to the community health for a doctor or nurse triage call...Not for lack of trying, though.

After years of pushing for nurses at every school, even LPN nurses..the money goes to athletics. Kind of a catch there, as this is who may need the medical attention the most. We alway had nurses at our schools growing up, but the budget cuts mean no nurses, same number of teachers or less, possibly no extracurricular activities.

Just doing the best with what we have..or what they (bureaucracy) will allow us.

We are blessed with a great 911 system, all ALS, and dedicated community health professionals. I fear it may take a tragedy to allow for more progress in the 'school nurse or not' argument. I guess the "how much are your kids worth" argument doesn't work anymore..

It just continues to boggle my mind how many people roll over and accept whatever crap deal their community hands them, and are willing to be pacified by all these feel-good measures, rather than simply stand up and fight for the right thing in the first place.

The shame is that in most cases, at least the cases in this discussion, the community at large give the right thing away. The taxpayers paying the millage have a bit of a say in what they get. They just don't care until a preventable tragedy is at hand..(ie. Children dying from a beesting before 911 arrives..)

As always, thanks for your insight. Agree or disagree with your opinion, your responses, or "rantings" as I termed it, are thought provoking and well written....Thank you for that..

[Dustdevil]

After years of pushing for nurses at every school, even LPN nurses..the money goes to athletics.

Ooooh... a direct hit! Plus 5 for that. You obviously have a solid grasp of what is going on here. Of course, ever since they passed a law saying that schools have to spend as much on girls athletics as the boys', they've had to rob even more money from vital programmes to waste on athletics. Seems like that is around the same time that school nurses started disappearing too. I hadn't thought of that before.

Needless to say, I really could not care less about this. My kids certainly won't be attending any public schools.

[VentMedic]

Your post, along with VentMedic's post just came together to make another point, which is the reason so many people think we need these Band Aids is because there aren't qualified medical personnel on site or close by. It just seems to me that, instead of asking what we can do without them, we should be asking why they aren't there, and demand that the situation change. There SHOULD be a nurse at ever school. And ALS EMS in the community too.

It just continues to boggle my mind how many people roll over and accept whatever crap deal their community hands them, and are willing to be pacified by all these feel-good measures, rather than simply stand up and fight for the right thing in the first place.

There hasn't been a nurse in every school in my state since the '80s. Some states also require an RN with a BSN for a School Public Health system which is great but harder to fund when compared to an LVN. And, even with a fairly decent EMS response time, for kids that may not be good enough. Not to be overly dramatic but why put a fence around a swimming pool if there's a Paramedic nearby.

Kids want to be part of a team and participate. They may deny symptoms or venture away from their own boundaries of safety just to belong. I spent my elementary school years in the 60s watching kids like that who were not allowed dress for PE and usually were in the nurse's office constantly. I think by having the schools provide some safety measures to allow parents some relief in knowing there is someone looking out for their kids when they can not be there AND that their kids can still be "normal" in activity is a big service.

Somebody posted about what to do to support more education all around. That is where I found the most benefit from having an organized state and national organization. I saw and still see kids and parents that need assistance in many areas as a paramedic but it is as an RRT that I can help to make a difference. I have been part of AARC's national and local level push to get inhalers back into the hands of kids that can manage their own. It is also in that profession that we can do the most education both inside and outside of the hospital.

We also have a population in the schools that most paramedics are not prepared for. That is another part of my RT department trying to get these professionals up to speed on the type of patients that are out there. Since we've been saving the preemies with BPD, trachs, G-tube, shunts etc., they are now in the school system. And, the teachers are getting more education both in college and with inservices on the medical aspects of these kids than Paramedics. Some Paramedics still shun being taught by anyone but one of their own about medicine. I can pull out whatever credential is convenient but with HEMS as an EMT-P and then RRT, I am not that involved with the ground EMS on a regular basis. I have been involved with the classes for the teachers through the college for the past 20 years. A lot of these issues are not new. It is just some systems are more receptive than others. The additional legislator for funding if schools recognized kids carrying their inhalers and Epipens helped.

[Dustdevil]

Not to be overly dramatic but why put a fence around a swimming pool if there's a Paramedic nearby.

Understood, but not really applicable to the current debate.

A fence is prevention. A nurse is intervention, just like the paramedic. Two different concepts.