Should EMTs Have to Babysit Their Medics?

[Jess]

I'm feeling a bit froggy and would like to take a pot shot at this.

So here lies the question....Can anyone list ways of learning new things WITHOUT asking questions? I can see how this thread could easily go to hell in a hand basket which is why I'm trying to analyze and understand EXACTLY what the original poster is asking. The only way I know to do this, is off my own personal experience.

Going through EMT-B I never questioned a medics judgment. Instead, after the pt was released to the care of the ED staff, I would ask the paramedic to explain why he did what he did so that I could get a better understanding. I wasn't an "In your face" student that had her book open to page 160 telling the medic that what he did was wrong "Cuz the book said to do it this way" I just simply asked what the difference was between one technique versus the other. I never doubted anyone I did my ride time with. In fact, I gained a lot of respect due to my eagerness to learn. I made an effort that every patient I came across, I learned something from as it goes that every paramedic I rode with, taught me at least one thing I didn't learn in class.

suzeg487 says: "Is it an EMT's place to question a medic's judgment that seems askew?"

Jess says: If it seems askew, don't bring it up right then and there in front of the pt. That will just make the patient uneasy about the care they are receiving. I would wait until the pt has been released into the care of the ED, then just explain the concern to the medic. Your not questioning his judgment by explaining something that was going through your head, your just trying to get a better understanding of the situation at hand and perhaps learning something you probably were not taught in basic. How else will you learn if you sit quiet and NEVER ask questions? So no need to babysit anyone You never ever stop learning and with the amount of years you've been in this, I hope that each patient and partner may teach you something new!

I hope I made some sense here. So far I've not had any negative results from my "Learning technique" listed above. I'm open for more ideas and opinions!

[DwayneEMTP]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Dust wouldn't hang this n00b if he'd read her other posts...I don't see Dust hating the question, but the ignorance and attitude that usually accompanies the question.

A couple of things differentiate this from 'those other threads'....

One, I don't see the attitude of 'EMTs save paramedics'. It appears to me that it's her own ass she's trying to cover here. I'm a medic student and have seen things that seemed hinky, even disturbing, that I've researched after the call and discovered were in fact hinky and disturbing.

Asking the question doesn't imply superiority. I don't claim to be superior or even equal to those medics, but having been there, helplessly, makes me hungry to answer the question of 'what to do' before I get there again...

And I don't see the ignorance. If you've read her other posts you'll find them helpful, thoughtful, and valuable. At least I did. 15 years is nothing to sneeze at. Before we decide to take the easy shots, let's make sure that this is not in fact a horse of a different color.

On the flip side...Do the search Suze...and you'll see what everyone is getting all froggy about...

Dwayne

[gvandellen]

To continue the education EMTDON970 states that D50 was given to a cardiac arrest pt. If you had ACLS you will know that hypoglycemia is a H of the H's and T's of Asystole assuming a BGL was checked and was low. So it could have been correct. What medics do is based on knowledge as well as state protocols with options based on the pts presentation. If you would like us to judge if a medics actions were justified then we need every detail of the scene. SAMPLE, OPQRST, Pt environment, age, sex, I, II, and III lead print out at a minimum, BGL, family history is possible, head to toe physical assessment, and other information. The medic is responsible for his actions and if you feel, for your education, after a call if you would like to know why or why not something was done then a good medic will explain it to you post call. To question their decision on a call is arrogant and unless the are starting an IV in the eyeball your there to assist them with pt care as they are the one that has to answer to medical command since they are the higher level of care. If you want to debate their decision become a paramedic.

[scott33]

To give a little background on myself, I've been an EMT for almost 15 years, and I'm as passionate about EMS now as I was when I first started out. I put patient care above all else.

So why have you not done the decent thing and become a Paramedic? Then you would be in no doubt that the interventions your medic is performing is the correct one.

Being an EMT-B for 15 years is like saying I have not advanced or increased my prehospital knowledge in 15 years. . The only way to learn is to move up the ladder (and I don't mean Lieutenant or Captain), not by observing paramedics and drawing your own conclusions.

Welcome.

[ccmedoc]

...Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Maybe....Go to paramedic school...then you won't have to question anyone's patient care but your own...Just a suggestion. 8)

Being an EMT for 15 years is like saying I have not advanced or increased my prehospital knowledge in 15 years. .

:shock: Good luck with the thread, by the way... :shock:

[paramedicmike]

I can see the point you're trying to make Dwayne. And I applaud your effort to stay above board on this.

However, I gotta ask, if she's really been in EMS for 15 years then why hasn't she learned the approach Jess outlined? Does she not feel she can approach medics with whom she works? It seems that since she's asking here (providing two examples as "evidence", both of which ERDoc shot down), then she either doesn't have the social skills or is afraid of the medics in question.

Asking a medic with whom you're comfortable regarding treatment provided is no different from asking a medic with whom you're not as comfortable. The only change will be your approach. And really, it's pretty simple.

I think Jess laid out a pretty good plan for our wayward original poster. I think ERDoc laid enough out to debunk any implied outrageousness of the medics in question.

The question now goes back to the original poster. Why haven't you asked the medics in question?

-be safe

[Don1977]

To continue the education EMTDON970 states that D50 was given to a cardiac arrest pt. If you had ACLS you will know that hypoglycemia is a H of the H's and T's of Asystole assuming a BGL was checked and was low. So it could have been correct. What medics do is based on knowledge as well as state protocols with options based on the pts presentation. If you would like us to judge if a medics actions were justified then we need every detail of the scene. SAMPLE, OPQRST, Pt environment, age, sex, I, II, and III lead print out at a minimum, BGL, family history is possible, head to toe physical assessment, and other information. The medic is responsible for his actions and if you feel, for your education, after a call if you would like to know why or why not something was done then a good medic will explain it to you post call. To question their decision on a call is arrogant and unless the are starting an IV in the eyeball your there to assist them with pt care as they are the one that has to answer to medical command since they are the higher level of care. If you want to debate their decision become a paramedic.

Ok, I did fail to mention, that this D50 was given down an ET tube, sorry.

And this medic got his certification pulled after this, so I guess it was aproblem at that time.

[Lisa659]

I am an EMT Intermediate of 15 years. I have had several very GOOD medics as partners. We work as a team, and have a wonderful partnership. We don't ALWAYS agree on EVERYTHING, but we take care of our PT. with the best of care. I would personally NEVER question my partner on the scene unless this was something I knew was going to be devastating to the patient. That stuff can wait!!! Two heads are ALWAYS better than one and lets remember, it takes BOTH of us to do the call. I am blessed with a great medic to work with, keep up the good work!!!!!

[scott33]

:shock: Good luck with the thread, by the way... :shock:

Read the replies thus far which can put all of the original posters concerns into perspective. Note also the hugely patronizing thread title. Look over the recent post which illustrate the lack of education the average EMT-B course provides, or the lack of continuation training or education involved to re-certify.

The fact remains that every three years you will be tested out on the same old stuff. Nothing new learned, nothing more added with each subsequent EMT card. That's just the way it is.

[Don1977]

So, really, if you all are so worried about her being a "15 yr" EMT and talk about her becoming a medic, why don't you all pay for her medic class?? Im sure she won't mind....can we stay with the topic?