ERDoc Posted February 21, 2008 Posted February 21, 2008 Dwayne, I have to admit that I have not read any of her other posts. I think it is the arrogance and attitude that is taken which is causing to jump on the OP. Asking if EMTs should babysit medics starts the flame war before you have even opened the thread. Maybe the OPs other posts have been worthwhile, but I think starting this one in this manner was just a set up for trouble. Keep in mind that experience without education just means you keep making the same mistakes and don't know that you are doing it.
paramedicmike Posted February 21, 2008 Posted February 21, 2008 Keep in mind that experience without education just means you keep making the same mistakes and don't know that you are doing it. :salute: :headbang: :hello1: :thumbup:
Lone Star Posted February 21, 2008 Posted February 21, 2008 I have to admit, to this point, I am impressed with all the responses! From the OP's choice of topic titles, I figured this was going to get real ugly, real quick......but aside from what I feel are some covert 'cheap shots'...the majority of the responses have been logical and raise some good points. Jess, I've said it before; and I'll say it again.... you've got your head on in the right direction, keep that attitude, and you'll make one hell of an EMT, at whatever level you choose to be!
reaper Posted February 21, 2008 Posted February 21, 2008 For a side note: Please don't bring out the line " Why don't you pay for her medic class". All of us have done it and I can guarantee you that I was at rock bottom, when I went through school. There are many ways to pay for schooling, look around. Please don't use money as an excuse to not further your education! I have no problem with EMT's asking why I choose a certain treatment, I will gladly explain why. But, the first one that tells me I'm wrong and their right, gets chewed up and spit out. BTW, I was an EMT for 13 years, before going on to medic. I can tell you that I learned one thing. I knew nothing about medicine, even though I thought I knew it all!!! :shock:
EMT City Administrator Posted February 21, 2008 Posted February 21, 2008 Great.. now that everyone has done their own background check on the new kid in the sandbox, can we keep it on topic?
Just Plain Ruff Posted February 21, 2008 Posted February 21, 2008 I run with a fire company that works with hospital-based paramedics. I've been on calls where both myself and my partner (I've been blessed to be partnered with excellent EMTs) have observed the medic not providing the appropriate care for the patient, e.g., giving a breathing treatment for an arrhythmia or probable MI according to both patient symptoms and cardiac monitor reading, and giving nitro and baby ASA to a patient who's wheezing and complaining of difficulty breathing with a NSR. Because I've known and worked with a lot of these medics for years, I feel I can comfortably question their reasoning for the treatment provided, but with others all I can do is scratch my head... Is it an EMT's place to question a medic's judgement that seems askew? To give a little background on myself, I've been an EMT for almost 15 years, and I'm as passionate about EMS now as I was when I first started out. I put patient care above all else. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Ok, I'm about to either kill myself here or not. This post will more than likely piss a lot of people off but I'm gonna say it anyway. Here I go. If you thought that the medic giving the wrong drug to a patient why didn't you question them right then. If by your counts the medic was giving the wrong drug why didn't you SPEAK up. We all know what happens when the wrong drug is given. The best scenario by giving the wrong drug is a minor drug event but it could be catastrophic for the patient. You feel that you can question their judgement but you don't question them on scene. I would be grateful for a partner who questioned my giving something that they felt was wrong. It has to be done on a practical basis and not directly in front of the patient. You can bring this up to me in numerous ways. To be blunt here, an EMT can question a medic only so far. The emt has not been thru ACLS, has not been thru a pharmacology class and barely has enough A&P and assessment education to really question things. Sure you may have a lot of experience but like Doc said, there is a lot of underlying causes and issues to critical patients and without the A&P and pharmacology to the level that medics get doesn't really give this person the right to criticise the care given. I'm sorry if this is blunt but an emt does not have the education to question the medic. Im sure that this will open a shiite storm with the above comment but I think that there will be a lot of people here that will agree with me. Just as a caveat, I have known emt's who were very educated and knowledgeable and I trusted them with my own life but for all intents and purposes, the treatment of the patient is my responsibility and mine alone. If I make a mistake it's on no-one's head other than mine. The arrogant attitude of the original posters topic title and her post is what set me off.
JPINFV Posted February 21, 2008 Posted February 21, 2008 Well, this will be fun. Issue one, YOUR TITLE. Have you ever had a bad impression because of a bad first impression? I know I've given my fair share of bad first impressions to people. Your title is YOUR first impression [and with 4 posts, you have no reputation to fall back on, good or bad]. Quite frankly, the title you picked could, at best, be considered a troll. Since your first impression with this thread is that of a troll, you are, right or wrong, going to be treated as one. Hence the results [garbage in, garbage out]. I run with a fire company that works with hospital-based paramedics. I've been on calls where both myself and my partner (I've been blessed to be partnered with excellent EMTs) have observed the medic not providing the appropriate care for the patient, e.g., giving a breathing treatment for an arrhythmia or probable MI according to both patient symptoms and cardiac monitor reading, and giving nitro and baby ASA to a patient who's wheezing and complaining of difficulty breathing with a NSR. Cardiac problems can cause respiratory signs and symptoms. Either your call volume and gomer [yes, I'm reading HOG right now, give me a few weeks to finish reading it for the references to stop] population is low, or your 15 years of experience means nothing. I find it hard to believe that a Basic with 15 years of experience has never seen a CHF patient. Because I've known and worked with a lot of these medics for years, I feel I can comfortably question their reasoning for the treatment provided, but with others all I can do is scratch my head... Well, if you have a question about treatment, approach the medics you are comfortable and ask them about the call and the treatments. Don't provide names and ask in a non-judgemental fashion ["I had a call a few weeks/months [lie on the time frame. Yes, flat out lie here to make it harder to track down which call it was] and the patient presented with A, B, C, and the medic treated with X, Y, Z. I was wondering if it was appropriate? Could you explain why?]. Is it an EMT's place to question a medic's judgement that seems askew? If you're 100% sure that it is a bad judgment call, then I would say ask, and ask immediately. If you feel that you might be missing a piece of the puzzle, ask after the call. Again, be non-judgmental. [sarcasm]Can I get a job babysitting medics? Babysitting looks like it pays more than working as a Basic. [/sarcasm]
JPINFV Posted February 21, 2008 Posted February 21, 2008 Well you know the old term.... "paramedics save lives, EMT's save Paramedics" from doing manual labor. I'll be here all week.
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