Will the real EMT's please Stand

[KAThomas]

The patient can request other Facilities... I have contacted my dispatcher to find out which hospitals have long BLS wait times to try to get my patients to a more appropriate facility. I wouldn't want a family member of mine going to a facility that everyone involved knows has a 5 hour wait time.

I have dickered with fire about that... once they are deemed BLS they belong to us directly. Yes, we call report to hospitals (basic Age, gender, chief compl., ETA) and they tell us how long the wait is projected to be. Yes, we have taken people to their normal/regular facility or where we know their insurance will be honored (to save a later IFT due to insurance [and thus an additional bill and inconvenience for the pt]).

If that helps.

[JPINFV]

I wouldn't want a family member of mine going to a facility that everyone involved knows has a 5 hour wait time.

So you try to stay away from Bellflower Medical Center and PIH? At least Bellflower's staff is nice and understand that they only have 3 gurneys in their ER. PIH on the other hand... :evil: :x :evil4:

[KAThomas]

:evil:

With the closure of MLK... Now it's St Francis & Downey Reg as well

:twisted:

[Eydawn]

Some valid points, especially about complacency regardless of education level, have been brought up here. Let's have more discussion on those. I know it's hard to be a great medical provider at the EMT-B level simply because your assessment skills haven't been brought up to snuff through a nice in-depth education, but certainly we can perform what we have been taught to the best of our ability and not be half arsed there, no?

Any thoughts on this?

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[KAThomas]

Amazing... how the assumption is because you are a BLS unit you can't possibly know anything. I have a fistful of certs & college, military exp and the medics I deal with have seen me side by side in class with them... everyone screams only 110 hours... but who only has 110, if you dig what you do? Medic Prep, ACLS, PALS, PHTLS, and a ton of other stuff later... I think being an overstated/overpapered 1st responder is a bit of a low blow.

I'm saying SoCal EMS will always stank to the heights as long as the B's cop out (fail to perform and fail to take a stance) and the other tiers of the system keep lobbing poop on them/us (and we seem to take it).

I have held off from posting anything here for some time because I wanted it to have a modicum of substance. At present I train and assist in the hiring of EMT's... hard to do if their nose is going to be bloodied at every turn. This puts thenm out there to run for fire, nursing, ED Tech land or leave altogether as a means to get away from a system that says "EMT/BLS" like a dirty word.

[Eydawn]

Thomas, it isn't that EMT-B's don't know anything, but rather that we don't know enough of the RIGHT things and aren't given time to process what we DO learn. Tell me that you haven't gone through the years and connected the dots... "Oh, so THAT is why that drug does this..." etc. If you think about how long we're given to learn basic medical care, and then add in that many people come into the EMT-B course without prior or outside knowledge (you and I fall into the other category it would seem), do you really think the time we're given to learn in is adequate?

Did you think just the EMT-B anatomy and physiology was adequate enough to let you differentiate between just another asthmatic SOB call and something warranting immediate paramedic intervention because your patient is pre-code? I did at first.

I've since grown up some, (I took the course when I was 18, for reference) taken more anatomy and physiology at the college level for my biology major, and read and integrated as much medically related knowledge as I have time to peruse.

Yes, you can be a very good EMT-basic, but the fact remains that the level itself (not the providers!) is flawed. That is why many here are passionate about discouraging people to remain at the current EMT-B level and encouraging education. I myself do not discount experiential education... but I do know that if you work with chemistry, for exampe, having only had a high school chemistry course, there is only so much that your years of experience can teach you. Yes, you absorb a good deal more information and make more connections... but unless you sit down and study organic chemistry and inorganic chemistry and biochemistry you don't have the same understanding as those who have- which *I* feel is limiting.

I agree that anyone practicing prehospital medicine at any of our current levels needs to be a dedicated provider and display competence if not excellence at those levels. If you want to work half-arsed, go join the rest of the slackers and get out of this field.

But while dedicating our commitment to excellent medical care, why not attempt to change our system and become better educated providers? Wouldn't that better serve our understanding, and directly influence the depth of our patient care ability? It won't change how you treat someone, or your coworkers-- that always lies within the person. But it will change how you think about what you're seeing in your assessment and increase your toolbox, giving your patient the best odds possible.

That make more sense?

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[DwayneEMTP]

I think you'll find that many here feel that BLS doesn't belong on an emergency ambulance...

From your post I can tell that you are intelligent, and being so I'm willing to be that you'll agree that we need to address the "rule" and not the "exception", right?

You sound passionate about what you do, and some do continue their educations. Hell, Eydawn is twice as smart as I'm ever likely to be, and she's a basic. But she is not the rule in my experience.

Last night on the way home from the Springs (CO) I could see smoke in the distance...made me think of a small brush fire perhaps. Just by accident, out of the corner of my rearview, I noticed a small rusted out brown car, doing probably in excess of 100mph begin to lose control as he passed from the fast lane into the slow lane to get around a slower (65mph) moving truck.

I was forced to drive off onto the grassy shoulder at 60mph or so to avoid being hit, as I certainly would have, had I not seen him. He regained control, and as he passed me I could see the fire fighter license plate as well as the star of life stickers (many) in his back window.

Yeah...a wanker volunteer basic (I'm guessing volunteer of course because all of the paid fire I'm familiar with drive the huge, shiny, penis extending trucks/jeeps) chose to risk taking my wife's husband and my son's father as well as their only means of financial support off of the planet so that he could be the first hero at an event that really needed an old man with a garden hose.

I could almost hear him thinking as he went by, "See! If they'd let me have lights and a siren I wouldn't have almost killed myself!!!"

Unfortunately that is what many professionals think of when they think of basics. Perhaps not to that extreme, and I have known many that didn't fit the bill. But being pissed that it's unfair is not going to change it.

Basics seem to feel that medics are immune. But I'd be willing to bet that if many spent time on a trauma nurse site, we'd find that the nurses spend very little time on conversations involving "why we should all thank God for brilliant medics."

I believe there are many basics that are very intelligent, continue their educations, and are very competent. The last basic I rode with (Not current) had 7 years on the street, college Anatomy/physiology/cellular biology that she'd taken on her own time, not to fulfill a requirement of any kind. I didn't meet/see a single medic that didn't show her complete respect, often asking her opinion. But again, she's an exception. She's also now chosen to go to medic school.

As long as every yahoo from a podunk volly fire service gets state plates and a "I'm a Life Saver!" basic cert, yet continues to remain ignorant, act childish, pseudo hero-ish, and just plain idiotic, screaming for respect is just going to make you tired.

(Yeah, OK Rid...I'm starting to get it)

Dwayne

[Scaramedic]

[align=center:1460978ebe]:wav: 1,000,000 :wav:[/align:1460978ebe]

[align=center:1460978ebe]Congrats to everyone, this is the millionth time we have discussed the merits or lack thereof of EMT-Basics!!!![/align:1460978ebe]

[align=center:1460978ebe]:D/ :thumbleft: WOO-HOO!!!!!!!! :thumbright: :D/[/align:1460978ebe]

[align=center:1460978ebe] :banghead: [/align:1460978ebe]

[DwayneEMTP]

Shoot Scar, I looked at that post and thought,"That's just like him!"

Well balanced, a little over the top, colorful, sort of irritating, but ultimately valid. :wink:

Dwayne

[Eydawn]

As long as we get new members who haven't been exposed to the EMT-B education discussion then we will continue to have this conversation. Isn't that a *good* thing? I thought we wanted discussion to change things! Any good scientist will tell you that it is always an uphill battle to get a paradigm shift moving. Aren't we still debating evolution? It's an accepted biological theory (akin to a law in physics) yet many still refuse to accept it. Did Galileo give up? How about Newton? Why should we?

The more you analyze an issue, the more you have to work to convince others of the merits of your ideas, the better foundation your stance gains. Therefore, I will say again... no likee? NO frickin clickee. No readee!!!!!

I think it's important to discuss this as we get new members in. Please tell me I am not the only one. I know it feels like the same argument over and over again... but nonetheless, it is important!

Wendy

CO EMT-B