Medic Attempts Suicide...Lose job or no?

[JPINFV]

I did not know there were different kinds....

Well, there are heartless, spineless, brainless bastards out there. We know them better as lawyers.

[Ridryder 911]

As I am in a supervisory role, I would definitely be concerned about anyone describing that their sole existence was their job. Red flags would be waving. Really, that does describe and demonstrate some potential instability. Sorry, I have seen such behavior by those that could not return to EMS after an injury, even one that committed suicide... Guess what, no one thought he was a hero. Rather really shameful... it is just a job. Seriously, one can be passionate about their job without devoting their sole life into it.

What would you do if you were injured and could not return to work, or something occurred (as an incident) and could not perform EMS again? Would you stop living? Really EMS is not a Nobel Prize job.

Work to live, not live to work.

Maintain a happy healthy medium.

R/r 911

[Lone Star]

I did not know there were different kinds....

Anyways, we are not talking about just any old mental illness. We are talking specifically of the bipolarism and if you had read any of my posts you would know I am intimately familiar with it which is why I can say without a doubt, that EMS is NOT for people with bipolar diagnosis.

And I think the context of my posts show that I am not heartless at all, exactly the opposite as I am encouraging what is best for the patient. Sorry your dreams have to be canceled, but that is life.

And no where did I say automatically fire them, I believe my very first post said to reassign her, the patient. If reassignment is not possible, then yes termination is in order.

If you are going to try and use my words against me, please quote properly and get them right. I did say one could be terminated if they LIED on a pre employment screen as that is a different issue entirely.

And yes, I could still fire someone knowing that they may kill themselves afterwards. I have already seen it here where I am. Private contractors come over here, not all of them are mercs by the way, best job they have ever had or ever will (pay wise), they get terminated and then they try to kill themselves.

We all know that is merely a cry for help. Now do you think we should of kept this employee over here cause they tried to kill themselves after being terminated. Should we say nevermind, you got your job back, just kidding? Just please promise not to kill yourself or anyone else for that matter please.

Get a grip, this is life, this is the real world. Its not all hugs and kisses because you are passionate about what you do.

While AK has advocated FOR the medic in this situation, I have to agree with him to a point. It is NOT the employers responsibility to make sure that the employee is happy in what ever form of a 'private life' they have, nor are they responsible for making the dreams of the employee come true.

While AK advocates reassignment, I disagree. It is NOT the employers responsibility to make sure that the employee is given a job that is the employee's dream job. If the employee cannot do the job (whether for physical or mental limitations, along with religious considerations, etc), then the employer is completely justified in terminating the working relationship with said employee.

As long as the termination isn't for race, gender, religion (fired because they're Catholic or Baptist), there is NO guarantee that you're going to be employed with XYZ, Inc. for any predetermined length of time, (unless you have signed a contract that has that stipulation in it.).

Life does NOT guarantee that everybody gets their 'dream job', nor guarantees that if you DO get your 'dream job' that you'll keep it......

In the event that the employee tells the employer, that 'if you fire me, I'll kill myself.' should be terminated for attempted extortion, or blackmail! Again, it is NOT the employer's responsibility to make life a bowl of cherries for the employees!

I have to agree with AK's assessment in his final comments of his post. Life is NOT all 'hugs and kisses', and it's high time that those that want to spread that way of thinking wake up and smell the coffee! No matter how much you want this 'kinder, gentler America', it has it's limits, and it has NO place in the business world. From the administrative aspect, EMS (private carriers), IS a business! Life is going to be chock full of 'bad things' that will serve to make us stronger, and more deterimined to work harder to succeed....but it's not going to be handed to us, and we WILL have to acually do some work in order to make it happen. Even then, there's no guarantees in it, no matter how passionate you are about your dreams, cause, or wants.

[firedoc5]

To back up, slow down, and simplify this topic to what I think emt322632 was trying to ask:

A Paramedic tries to kill himself, of which he fails. Does he get to keep his job or will he be fired?

[akflightmedic]

To back up, slow down, and simplify this topic to what I think emt322632 was trying to ask:

A Paramedic tries to kill himself, of which he fails. Does he get to keep his job or will he be fired?

Sorry mate, it is NOT that simple as all of the extenuating circumstances are relevant to the question posed; therefore, they must be discussed.

[LisaO925]

Not to be rude, and the thoughts are nice but let's be real. Is the employer going to pay her while she gets her poop together? I agree with AK if a possible desk job is available, that would be great.

I had the unfortunate event of working with a great medic that had major Bi-Polar disorder. I could tell when they were off their medications. They literally cried about coming to work and the spontaneity of events. Although they were medically knowledgeable they were a horrible employee. I was able to detect their symptoms immediately and confronted them.

I highly encouraged them to leave the field as this is not conducent with their illness. As AK described it tends to help that they are in a stable and predictable and routine environment. Unfortunately, they attempted at several other EMS agencies and have failed as well. Now having a reputation...

Again, maybe we should recognize that this business is not for everyone. Alike other jobs that require physical and mental demands, we should empathise it is essential to have a well balance mental health as well. This should really be emphasized from the Basic level and especially as the responsibility increases. Sorry, we would not encourage students with severe osteoathritis and other illnesses to enter the field, why should we not provide the same information to those that have mental illnesses?

R/r 911

No, I wouldn't give her pay while she got the help she needed. In my perfect little happy happy world, after her Dr. gave her the ok to go back to work would she then start getting pay again.

[firedoc5]

Sorry mate, it is NOT that simple as all of the extenuating circumstances are relevant to the question posed; therefore, they must be discussed.

Yes, I agree. But when this started out that is pretty much all that was asked. All the extenuating circumstances which has been addressed has been done properly. I was just refreshing the original post.

[stcommodore]

Without reading the entire thread this is my view of it all...Suicide and mental illness is a very real issue in Emergency Services. It isn't a chapter in our text books and education for no reason, we need to watch ourselves and our co-workers for issues and look out for each other in the early phases of a problem. I would wonder the legality of termination in this type of situation because in many cases when a health provider is found to have a drug problem there are requirments that you seek help for the provider before termination.

On a more basic level I would hope that a "brotherhood" willing to look out for each other on the street would look out of each other back at the station.

[Ridryder 911]

On a more basic level I would hope that a "brotherhood" willing to look out for each other on the street would look out of each other back at the station.

Well the best way the "brotherhood" could help is to get professional help for the person. Too many EMS experts attempt to enable many by either ignoring or "blowing it off" and condoning it, then under their breath talk about how "crazy" or "not surprised" that their dismissal occurred.

In legal terms, behavior attitudes is probably one the easiest to document from associates and others giving their inputs, as well many of these type start receiving complaints from patients and allied health providers. The employer is responsible for the safety of all, and as well presenting a positive image to their business. Drug testing would not have to even be considered if enough documentation occurred.

I believe some people are too concerned on how hard dismissing someone is. In actuality it is pretty easy, if there is proper justification or a good paper trail. Even then most will settle for unemployment. I just went through a seminar on "How to Fire people & feel Happy!"; I was surprised on the misconceptions and myths of discharging employees.

R/r 911

[Just Plain Ruff]

Recently here we had a medic who is employed by a private agency and a volunteer agency attempt suicide by downing most of her meds for her bipolar disorder and antianxiety.

She was recently dx with bipolar disorder, and has been extremely noncompliant with treatment. She was diagnosed after she was sent to IMHU for depression, they discharged her after 2 days with the dx of bipolar disorder and a prescription.

Recently, she downed most of her meds while at home with her 2 children, and it was the private agency that employed her that picked her up.

I have heard rumors that she is going to be fired, and that she will lose her state certification.

While I personally do not like this woman, I honestly don't know if this is something that can be done or should be done. She has a genuine problem, she just needs time to get her act together.

Any thoughts?

Ok after reading all the threads on this particular post I went back and re-read the original post.

Not only does this person identify where the emt was at, they identified some of what the patient did. Take that further they have now perpetuated the rumor that the person is going to get their license pulled and they are going to get fired.

the original poster says that they do not like this woman.

I find this sort of post disconcerting. We have a poster with an professed dislike of this person who is in psych trouble and he posts rumors and the like.

After re-reading this original post I find the motives of the original poster suspect and disconcerting.