Medic Attempts Suicide...Lose job or no?

[Chief1C]

1. She's protected by HIPPA

What's HIPPA?

[p3medic]

Its a North American Pottamus.

[JPINFV]

What's HIPPA?

¿The feminine version of a hippo?

[SWM_Medic]

My heart really goes out to this person. I have heard of other medics having breakdowns whether on or off the job. We all have to remember one thing though. We have a duty to care for our pt's after ourselves and our co-workers. What would happen to a partner if his/her partner had a manic episode while dealing with another manic pt? This may not happen on scene, what if it was in the back of the truck traveling down the road? I would hate to be in that situation. While I don't think anybody should be fired over a disability, I also don't want to endanger anyone else. It's kinda of a catch 22. If the medic in question could demonstrate she dosen't pose a risk to anyone, by all means get back to work. Now that my tangent is over, no I don't think a suicide attempt is grounds for dismissal.

[Lone Star]

There's at least 3 factors that I dont think are being considered here....

1. As a medic, she should already be aware of what happens when you're non-compliant with meds, especially in bipolar situations.

2. Armed with this knowledge, she chose to become non-compliant. It's not like anyone coerced her into non-compliance,.....it was something that she did by choice, even after knowing what the end results would be.

3. Since she made this decision after knowing the facts, shows a complete disregard for not only her own safety, but those around her. Since the employer cannot force her to take her meds, then she is an unacceptable risk factor. What's to say that the next time she decides to attempt suicide, she's not driving to recieving facility with a pt on board? Since she opted to 'go off her meds', no one can guarantee that it wont happen again! As an employer, that's not a risk Im willing to take.

4. Since a diagnosis of being bipolar is a mood disorder, not an 'intellectual disorder', she should have known that her actions would have serious repercussions! Rather than 'molly coddle' her for being bi-polar, she needs to just deal with the situation that she created. It is NOT the employers responsibility to risk such liability in order to cater to someone who created their own mess!

No, she didn't ask to be bi-polar, but she DID decide to stop taking her meds, even knowing what would happen. As cold and hard as it sounds, she should have her license revoked by the state, and be fired as well. I don't think that the company should make 'special provisions' for her, to keep from 'depressing' her. In my book, all that does is reward stupidity!

[DwayneEMTP]

LS, for myself, I'm going to have a hard time expecting someone that has made the completely irrational decision to commit suicide (Irrational for most at least) to be responsible for monitoring their own med compliance. It seems to me if you go down this road that the fault lies more with her med provider than her.

I'm not saying her employer is responsible for her care, that she should be held blameless, or anything else not specifically stated in my posts...Only that the above argument doesn't seem logical to me if looked at from a mental health point of view.

As well, I'm treating this story as an abstract exercise, as there is no answer to it without a much more indepth examination of the circumstances surrounding this than is, or probably could be, related here. This is a life. My comments would never be so flippant and/or certain if they actually carried any weight... :wink:

Dwayne

[DwayneEMTP]

...Rather than 'molly coddle' her for being bi-polar, she needs to just deal with the situation that she created...

Assuming that there was a suicide attempt, and that she truly made an honest effort to take her life with her children present...

That would be your advice? :shock:

Yikes LS, are you still taking those drugs from surgury? I think it's time to dial em back a few notches...

Dwayne

[Ridryder 911]

..." Drama is so ubiquitous in EMS "...

Not to quote out of context, but again I am seeing more and more drama everyday by our own folks. What is it? I see more and more drama kings and queens in this business. Everything is made to be a "big deal". Doing things in front of the children is even a good case to reveal such behavior.

I too have seen real events of medics that had true depression and mental illness and yes, many did it successfully (with history of seeing what works and not works).

I am not belittling any mental health issues, but I think we do need to consider the options of a "mental health" check for everyone that enters and alike physical exams a mental health check for all that work in it.

I know the old saying." 1 out of 3 is crazy"; I know what profession they tend to be attracted to. Again, why don't we require a mental evaluation checking for stability, and potential problems?

R/r 911

[Michael]

bipolar is a mood disorder, not an 'intellectual disorder'

I drew the same sharp distinction, until I began to learn that bipolar patients are sometimes organically unable to achieve a critical detachment from some of their own ideas. When they are suffering (though it doesn't look or feel like suffering) a manic or hypomanic (ie, functioning with apparent normalcy) episode, such individuals, who normally exercise intelligent, resourceful, and responsible moral judgments, simply cannot evaluate their own enthusiasms rationally. They are often exceptionally creative people who are convincingly lucid, and they may be very articulate, but they are not thinking sanely, and will meet any questioning of their "great ideas" with disgusted dismissals of your inability to recognize their brilliance. At which point you will have a hard time re-establishing credibility with them about anything. The notion that they don't need to take medication, or that medication would be positively harmful for them to take, is very typical of the disorder, as can be an expert manipulativeness that goes against their own interests. It is mind-numbing, heartbreaking, and demoralizing to try to protect them from their own fanatical confidence. Not a simple matter.

[mrmeaner]

For the services that have the gestational fortitude to make the call, I would say an indefinate suspension would be the most appropriate form of risk management. Essentially, actions as Rid described. Until the pt. is cleared by a physician, there will be doubt that the pt. is stable enough to work. Not to be melodramatic, but this employee is a risk to the safety of herself and others. The failure to eliminate this risk this significant by any other cause would be irresponsible of the employer.

Fortunately for her, she was unsuccessful and did not attempt to take her children with her. If she has to find another profession, well, at least she's able to.

Unfortunately for her, her secret is out. If she comes back to work, she may be ridiculed. Patients may not want to be treated by her. Other employees may not want to work with her. Hopefully it will be incentive for her and her family/friends to monitor her well being more carefully.