Should People With Infectious Diseases Be Allowed in EMS?

[chbare]

Please do not misquote me. I have not used the words acceptable and unacceptable to describe the situation. You need to take a moment and reread my prior posts. I simply want people to consider the pitfalls of their solutions to this potential problem.

Take care,

chbare.

[gvandellen]

Ya know, anytime you preface a point with some nonsense about "Fox news driven hysteria," you lose about three-quarters of your audience before you even get to your point. You lost me. But hey, at least that's three minutes of my life I didn't waste reading your post, so thanks for the warning.

So Dust you disagree with the fact that most peoples perceptions of medicine and fears of disease isn't learned from the news. Take MRSA, did you once see see any news station in a report inform the public that there is Hospital acquired and Community acquired MRSA. Not once, because that doesn't sell papers. News is entertainment and thats the same source our patients get their medical knowledge. Be careful, don't sit on that toilet seat, because you could get AIDS was a media story. Our perceptions are created by what we see and hear, some take the news as gospel but some of us still need to find more factual information on what rates of transmission are for a intelligent discussion.

This is a controversial subject. I don't intend on changing anyones views. I think we all have valid arguments. People only worry about a few things in life, money, family, and self being the top. This discussions covers them all and it pisses people off. Good. As long as no invalid info on statistics get posted but not corrected.

To say that you don't want to continue a thread because you didn't like the way it started is childish. I'd never get through Saturday Night Live if I just had to watch the opening monologue to make my decision to keep watching. TIVO me and find the good stuff.

[DwayneEMTP]

The valid question would be, if someone you loved more than life itself was laying there dying, and you had a choice of a healthy, disease free paramedic and an HIV positive paramedic treating them, which would you choose? After all, we're talking about whether or not those people should be in the field in the first place.

I guess I’m a little lost as to why this is the valid question. But then, I would simply want which ever was smarter and more compassionate.

Beings that this thread seems to be off into the Twilight Zone already anyway…I believe there is an argument to be made, for me, for the HIV infected provider as a preference.

It goes a little something like this…Let's assume AIDS. A person having lived through the horror of being diagnosed (And it matters not at all to me how they became infected), and then living with the stigma of “Ssssttttt….do you suppose s/he’s a fag?”, and then the treatment which I understand can be less than pleasant. I’m guessing that on average you’ll end up with someone that is more able to relate to the sick, injured and/or different than someone that has not had to endure the “medical process.”

My son is different. To some he’s ‘retarded’, to others, simply ‘stupid/slow/weird’, I can see advantages to him being treated by someone else that is perceived as ‘damaged’. After all if you’ve got Hep/HIV/AIDS etc, we all know that these are diseases of “dirty” people, right?

I can tell you one thing for certain. I would prefer that anyone in my family be treated by someone infected with Hep/HIV/AIDS than a healthcare provider that is willing to deny another person of their livelihood based on the infitisimaly small chance of exposure discussed here. (Edit:) The latter shows a lack of compassion, education and rational/logical thought that I would defend my family from, not solicite for them.

And it makes me crazy that the “misguided” (Used tongue in cheek) crowd yet refuses to answer the simple questions asked above.

Why are you freaking out and willing to stigmatize, and ruin peoples careers over the .001% chance of infection, but have no issue with the 1% chance (Pulled that out of the air of course) of lethal exposure to more common viruses and bacterial infections? You can not continue to pretend to be “Pro” patient advocacy, and trumpet “Do no harm!” when you’re attacking something that will almost certainly rarely/never happen, , yet ignore the things we already KNOW are happening!! (People becoming infected by EMS workers with more common conditions.)

The odds of me running on a bleeding person, pretty small. Let’s say 10%.

The odds of me getting cut on a call, any call. Very small. Let’s say 1% which I know from experience is way too generous.

The odds that I won’t know that I’m injured, I don’t know, .01% perhaps.

The odds that I’ll unknowingly drip blood should all of this other crap happen? Not sure.

But if I do, the odds of transmission of HIV? I can’t remember, 1/300 or 1/600 or the like?

So if I do the math…Let’s see….OK, so I don't know how to do the math…let’s just say so small that any person that has ever been exposed to scientific data should be terribly embarrassed to attempt to ruin people’s careers over it.

If you were suggesting that all EMS should be masked when dealing with patients, at least I could see where you’re coming from, as there are proven risks. But as you continue to ignore the links supplied by Vent and others…at this point you might as well be advocating the removal of all Scorpios from EMS because it seems like they might attract meteors and we will all die! Certainly I’m obligated to protect my patients from meteors?

Somebody hates “Queers”, or “Dirty people”, or some such ignorant thing…because the arguments make no sense in any other light that I can see.

Shoot LS, you're just recovering from an injury. I propose that you should never be allowed to be involved in patient care again. You have been injured, which statistically means you may become injured again in the future. There is the possibility that you'll reinjure/become newly injured at a critical time while involved in patient care. That the injury will cause you to drop, or otherwise mishandle the patient in a way that may cause them to become crippled or killed. As a patient advocate and dedicated healthcare provider, I find that you are now, and forever and unacceptable risk. Please write and let us know how you do in your next career.

Doesn't that sound crazy to you?

Do you see what I mean? I could get on board with "How do we mitigate the risks?" But you've instead chosen to attack, and remove from their chosen field a group of people that math and science show to be a much lower risk than the one I used to remove you from the field you love...Am I saying this out loud? Can anyone hear me...?

Dwayne

[spenac]

DwayneEMTB excellent post.

[VentMedic]

DwayneEMTB excellent post.

A compliment from spenac. Now that is impressive Dwayne!

Excellent post.

[gvandellen]

Let me add on one small thought to ponder. Who really calls us to the scene? Who uses 911? I have a family I love very much, I would kill any of you over them without even blinking. If I call 911 it's because I or my family has an emergency? They might die if I don't call. I can't do a direct Laryngoscopy on my son if he's choking as I don't have the tools. I don't care who they send as long as it saves my son. The risk to the patient is life vs maybe infected and dying 15 years later.

[ccmedoc]

DwayneEMTB..Very solid post.

Why are you freaking out and willing to stigmatize, and ruin peoples careers over the .001% chance of infection, but have no issue with the 1% chance (Pulled that out of the air of course) of lethal exposure to more common viruses and bacterial infections? You can not continue to pretend to be “Pro” patient advocacy, and trumpet “Do no harm!” when you’re attacking something that will almost certainly rarely/never happen, , yet ignore the things we already KNOW are happening!! (People becoming infected by EMS workers with more common conditions.)

You were VERY lenient with that 1%..I like this statement though

A very strong position argument throughout..well put!

[spenac]

A compliment from spenac. Now that is impressive Dwayne!

Excellent post.

I always commend posts that are well done.

[mrmeaner]

Somebody hates “Queers”, or “Dirty people”, or some such ignorant thing…because the arguments make no sense in any other light that I can see.

...and this is where I thank you all for a spirited discussion and make my deperture.

[Dustdevil]

The risk to the patient is life vs maybe infected and dying 15 years later.

Wonderful. So your son dies at 17 instead of age 2. And you're telling me that, given the choice, you wouldn't want to mitigate BOTH of those risks?

I'll tell you who calls 911: Desperate people with no choices and no options. The weakest and most vulnerable people in our society. The thought of giving them less than what they deserve simply because they are forced to accept it is repugnant to my moral reasoning.

And I wasn't addressing your point about the media. I don't even know what your point about the media was because, again, I didn't bother to read it. That's what happens when you soil your point with inflammatory hyperbole.