Fainting FF can not pass paramedic clinicals...

[Dustdevil]

That has to be [s:d8d4a700b5]one of the[/s:d8d4a700b5] the most ludicrous statement ever made concerning Fire and EMS. I somehow doubt that the guy fainting has anything to do with him being a firefighter.

Think again. It has everything to do with his being a firefighter. It has everything to do with him wanting ONLY to be a firefighter, and not a medic. Not that I blame him. But it is only because he is a firefighter that there is the slightest chance he may come out of this with a job.

[firedoc5]

How long has he been at the job? If he stayed with it and got use to it maybe he could get over it eventually. Who knows, maybe one day he'll try it and finally just "get over it".

[ERDoc]

That has to be [s:536c2f9f47]one of the[/s:536c2f9f47] the most ludicrous statement ever made concerning Fire and EMS. I somehow doubt that the guy fainting has anything to do with him being a firefighter. :roll: And people with a medical emergency dont need an ambulance or a fire truck, they need someone with medical skills. The vehicle is irrelevant. Ive ridden with medics who couldnt start an IV on five tries and without getting blood all over the rig, the floor, the patient and the cot. Get over it, Doc.

That has to be the most naive statement ever made. Maybe you misunderstood what I was trying to say (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now). I am not knocking this guy for being a FF. I have a great deal of respect for him for being one. It's obvious that the medical field is just not meant for this guy. The FD may be getting rid of a guy who could be one hell of a FF because he cannot do the EMS part. Seems to me like they are cutting off their nose to spite their face. Not everyone is meant to be a medic and not everyone is meant to be a FF and by expecting someone to do both means you may be eliminating some awesome medics/FFs.

The FD has no business running EMS. The only reason they keep it around is to make their numbers look better when its time to ask the politicians for more money. "Hey look, our volue was up by 25% last year and we need $1,000,000 more to keep up." Yeah, that 25% increase was in your EMS volume, too bad they will only see an extra $2.50. The rest is going to be spent on shiny new firetrucks. NREMT, I may not have as many letters after my name as you do but I think my 10 years in the field prior to medical school has taught me a few things. Fire chiefs have no idea what it takes to successfully run an EMS service. They don't have the first clue about practicing good medicine. The can't (or maybe chose not to) understand research and EBM. Medicine chages daily and they just can't keep up. Having been on the physician side of things for a few years I have seen the same thing. The services that are exclusively EMS are generally more progessive and want to stay current on the literature. It is the fire based services that still think MAST pants and spine traction are good things. They are the ones that say, "We've always done it this way, so why do we need to change?"

As a supposed EMS professional why would you want someone else overseeing you profession, especially when that governing body has nothing to do with your field? Having the FD run EMS is akin to having CPAs run the PD or the FDA running NASA. I just cannot comprehend why you would want to have your profession run by someone else. Maybe you can explain it to me.

You say that the vehicle doesn't matter. Are you serious? Are you going to run an arrest on the back of a ladder truck? Do you put your trauma pts in the stump jumper? If you are then that is the type of cowboy medicine that EMS does not need. A medical pt needs a medical vehicle with medical personel who can transport them to the hospital for medical attention. Do you see the common thread there?

I'm sorry to hear that you have had to deal with bad medics in the past. Five attempts to get an IV sounds a little excessive, but it happens. Some people are hard sticks. But that being said, we all know of someone who did something. There are good and bad in every field and I am not arguing that point, so telling me that you know someone who took 5 tries to get an IV and got blood all over the place is really irrelevant. There are some FFs who make great medics and enjoy what they do. I would be willing to bet that in a FD where they are forced to become medics and they have no desire to care for pts that their pts are not getting the best care. Would you want to be treated by someone who wanted to care for you or someone who was being forced to? Who do you really think is going to provide better care? In the end, isn't EMS and medicinei n general about providing the best pt care?

[NREMT-Basic]

For the most part I agree with what you are saying. I asked for a reasoned and reasonable response and got one. Your absolutely right that one of the main reasons that we may get sub standard EMS responders when FFs are forced to become EMTs or Medics is because they dont want to do it and are forced to in order to keep/get a job. However, there are those of us who are committed to quality patient care and the fire service (like me) and who are trying to improve the level of first response care offered by their departments. If I am the first medical responder on scene and I happen to be getting of an engine, I really want more available to me than an oxygen bottle. I think an AED, bleeding control, airway, etc would be a very good idea and once I see exactly everything that my department carries in its jump kits, I hope to be able to make some helpful suggestions. Thanks for your thoughtful comments.

[ERDoc]

I'm glad I could meet your high standards. :roll:

[Richard B the EMT]

A lifetime ago (1974), a newly minted EMT on a Volunteer Ambulance Corps went out on her first call. On that first call, she fainted at the sight of blood on her first patient.

Needless to say, she quit the line of work after returning to the base.

[Dustdevil]

However, there are those of us who are committed to quality patient care and the fire service (like me)...

Who are you to lecture us about commitment? Every four months you find a new obsession to be totally "committed" to. In the last twenty months, we've watched you bounce from Tac Med, to Civil Air Patrol, to the USPHS, to IMERT, and now to the volunteer fire service. I figure you'll be ready for the French Foreign Legion just in time for your two year anniversary here.

I'm curious how many years you plan to waste with all these little hobbies and fantasies before you decide to really commit to being a medical professional. How many years of pretending to be in EMS is going to be enough for you before you discover the value of further education? If you had spent as much time in school as you spend arguing how much you don't need it, you could have been a medic a year ago now. You might have even found a job.

I think an AED, bleeding control, airway, etc would be a very good idea and once I see exactly everything that my department carries in its jump kits, I hope to be able to make some helpful suggestions.

Based upon what? Have you even worked in EMS since you finished EMT school? I don't recall you mentioning any actual experience. So let me get this straight; you're going to walk in off the street with NO experience and a whole 120 hours of night school first aid, and tell the people running this organisation how things ought to be done? You are going to point out their shortcomings for them? That ought to immediately earn their respect. Not.

Sounds like you really don't have any more confidence in volly fire EMS than the rest of us do!

[triemal04]

Who are you to lecture us about commitment? Every four months you find a new obsession to be totally "committed" to. In the last twenty months, we've watched you bounce from Tac Med, to Civil Air Patrol, to the USPHS, to IMERT, and now to the volunteer fire service. I figure you'll be ready for the French Foreign Legion just in time for your two year anniversary here.

I'm curious how many years you plan to waste with all these little hobbies and fantasies before you decide to really commit to being a medical professional. How many years of pretending to be in EMS is going to be enough for you before you discover the value of further education? If you had spent as much time in school as you spend arguing how much you don't need it, you could have been a medic a year ago now. You might have even found a job.

Based upon what? Have you even worked in EMS since you finished EMT school? I don't recall you mentioning any actual experience. So let me get this straight; you're going to walk in off the street with NO experience and a whole 120 hours of night school first aid, and tell the people running this organisation how things ought to be done? You are going to point out their shortcomings for them? That ought to immediately earn their respect. Not.

Sounds like you really don't have any more confidence in volly fire EMS than the rest of us do!

Damnit, you beat me to it. It's funny though, disaster boy posts (or used to) on another website with...nicer....mods than here, so many times when he was being told to shut up until he learned something the thread was locked. It's also funny that I've asked him many of those same questions before and he neglected to answer them for some reason. Shocking.

To clear things up, it would be nice to know exactly how long he has WORKED as an EMT for, how long he has VOLUNTEERED as an EMT for, how long he has VOLUNTEERED as a FF for, how long he's VOLUNTEERED with IMERT for, and, if he is so gung-ho to help and protect his country, why he never joined a group that is only around to do that; the military. Or hell, why he's never done more with his life than becoming a Basic; as a paramedic, or RN, RT, PA, MD, anything like that he'd have much more of an impact than the bullshit he does now.

I am curious what his next shiney new group to pander to will be. He's done disaster response with IMERT, now it's volunteer firefighting. Maybe next everyone will get real lucky and he'll find a volunteer ambulance to ride on. They have those in Illinois, right? :roll:

/end rant.

[spenac]

This now should be moved to the funny section. :twisted:

[ERDoc]

It would also seem that once he is called on something, he disappears. Sounds similar to another Firefighter that used to be around here, who I believe was from Chicago (though I could be wrong).