using a bvm on a conscious pt.?

[VentMedic]

there is no real negative effect from this, either they tolerate it or they don't.

Just drop an NPA and go to town.

Vomiting - Aspiration - Ventilator - PNA - ARDS - Trach - Vent Farm

*Use caution; a human patient isn't some manikin you've been playing with in EMT class

*don't force against the patient's breathing

*have suction ready

*understand the underlying cause and why the body is responding accordingly (fever, acidosis, V/Q mismatch, air-trapping)

Yes, you can BVM a conscious patient. But, use some commonsense and work with the patient by using verbal support for reassurance that you know what you are doing and coordinate with their breathing.

If you are still unsure about this, find a good mentor to give you some additional advice for this and other possible scenarios. Control of an airway is too important to put off thoroughly understanding a procedure until it happens.

[UtProsim]

Vomiting - Aspiration - Ventilator - PNA - ARDS - Trach - Vent Farm

*Use caution; a human patient isn't some manikin you've been playing with in EMT class

*don't force against the patient's breathing

*have suction ready

*understand the underlying cause and why the body is responding accordingly (fever, acidosis, V/Q mismatch, air-trapping)

Yes, you can BVM a conscious patient. But, use some commonsense and work with the patient by using verbal support for reassurance that you know what you are doing and coordinate with their breathing.

If you are still unsure about this, find a good mentor to give you some additional advice for this and other possible scenarios. Control of an airway is too important to put off thoroughly understanding a procedure until it happens.

thats all obvious stuff, and yes I did write that in my post, assist breathing upon the patients inspiration to allow them to obtain a higher volume and slow their rate, obviously you would have suction ready at ALL airway calls, and frankly, I like to take suction to most calls, better to have it there than not, and it is just common sense to explain what you are doing to the patient, otherwise you have no business in the medical field, it's called compassion and well, common sense, so, now you know I don't treat my patient as some kind of airway dummy from EMT school, although I hope you already knew that and were being sarcastic, I would like to think that someone who was like that wouldn't be allowed to pass the class

[usapride2004]

Vomiting - Aspiration - Ventilator - PNA - ARDS - Trach - Vent Farm

Of course you would have suction ready. You ALWAYS have suction ready when managing an airway.

And, you just listed all the reasons why I said I try to avoid bagging conscious patients.

[Dustdevil]

...it is just common sense to explain what you are doing to the patient, otherwise you have no business in the medical field, it's called compassion and well, common sense, so, now you know I don't treat my patient as some kind of airway dummy from EMT school, although I hope you already knew that and were being sarcastic, I would like to think that someone who was like that wouldn't be allowed to pass the class.

Oh puhleeze! :roll:

I have yet to see an EMT school that teaches common sense. In fact, it cannot be taught. You either have it, or you don't. And do the math. What are the odds that somebody who blows $1500 bucks and three months of their life on a first aid course of less than 200 hours, to enter a job market that is flooded with uneducated kids who will work for little or nothing, has a lot of common sense going for him? Slim to none.

One-hundred and twenty hours is not even enough to cover Anatomy & Physiology, much less the pathophysiology education and clinical experience necessary to competently make instantaneous airway decisions based upon sound medical and scientific theory. All the stupid NR exam asks is at what rate you would bag the patient. There is nothing there about critical thinking or evaluating the patient's needs. It's simply about memorising a cut-off number, and that's about all you'll get out of any EMT course too, so don't give me this crap about what EMTs should know if they can pass a silly first aid class that is geared to the lowest common denominator, being a volunteer firemonkey with an eighth grade education.

The truth is, even the very best EMT school, selecting only the very best candidates, still produces a provider that is not educationally prepared for the challenge of critical decision making by themselves. That means the vast majority of the losers running around with EMT patches aren't even close to prepared. Don't kid yourself.

[UtProsim]

Oh puhleeze! :roll:

I have yet to see an EMT school that teaches common sense. In fact, it cannot be taught. You either have it, or you don't. And do the math. What are the odds that somebody who blows $1500 bucks and three months of their life on a first aid course of less than 200 hours, to enter a job market that is flooded with uneducated kids who will work for little or nothing, has a lot of common sense going for him? Slim to none.

One-hundred and twenty hours is not even enough to cover Anatomy & Physiology, much less the pathophysiology education and clinical experience necessary to competently make instantaneous airway decisions based upon sound medical and scientific theory. All the stupid NR exam asks is at what rate you would bag the patient. There is nothing there about critical thinking or evaluating the patient's needs. It's simply about memorising a cut-off number, and that's about all you'll get out of any EMT course too, so don't give me this crap about what EMTs should know if they can pass a silly first aid class that is geared to the lowest common denominator, being a volunteer firemonkey with an eighth grade education.

The truth is, even the very best EMT school, selecting only the very best candidates, still produces a provider that is not educationally prepared for the challenge of critical decision making by themselves. That means the vast majority of the losers running around with EMT patches aren't even close to prepared. Don't kid yourself.

Listen buddy, i don't know what your major malfunction is,..but I NEVER said that EMT school teaches compassion, why don't you spend some more time reading posts before you try to bash someone, it makes you look like an @$$ I'm not even gonna bother to respond to the other points, never mind you and never mind your sarcasm!

[Scaramedic]

Listen buddy, i don't know what your major malfunction is,..but I NEVER said that EMT school teaches compassion, why don't you spend some more time reading posts before you try to bash someone, it makes you look like an @$$ I'm not even gonna bother to respond to the other points, never mind you and never mind your sarcasm!

He never mentioned compassion, he mentioned common sense. Ironic isn't it? :wink:

[Don1977]

I have bagged consciuos patients before and to what DustDevil is saying, I can agree, I have seen some stupid ass EMT's around my area.

[Don1977]

And compassion???? i usually tell my patient what i am doing, but that was never taught to me, kind of acquired...

[akroeze]

You can't spell compassion without ass...

[CBEMT]

What are the odds that somebody who blows $1500 bucks and three months of their life on a first aid course of less than 200 hours, to enter a job market that is flooded with uneducated kids who will work for little or nothing, has a lot of common sense going for him? Slim to none.

Well, to be fair- at the moment, we all have to do it, whether or we think Basic is a great level of care. Can't really accuse somebody of lacking common sense for doing what's required to enter the field.

And I've been meaning to ask you- where is Basic school $1500?? Even the expensive places around here haven't cracked a grand yet, and most are in the $800-$900 range- even way up here in the inflated Northeast.