Paramedic sits up front on transfer, patient dies

[usapride2004]

While the Paramedic may be the ultimate provider in charge of the ambulance, even an EMT-B should know that you NEVER, EVER leave the patient alone, for any reason whatsoever. Especially on an ALS transfer for Heaven sake. She was on a freaking vent... what would make you think that it's OK to sit up front? I get pissed off when my partner sits in the airway seat and does paperwork during routine transports. Anyone can die at any time. That is why they're in a damn ambulance. Plus they obviously lied about the whole thing. Batteries fell out of the monitor MY ASS! This guy is full of crap. They saw you get out of the cab you ass hole!

They should both loose their certifications, absolutely, and without a shadow of a doubt. I don't think the state needs to shut down the service, because I hope the family sues the two EMTs and the service, and takes them for every collective penny they are worth. Chapter 11 anyone?

And we wonder why EMS is the red-headed step child of public safety/healthcare...

[Dustdevil]

I get pissed off when my partner sits in the airway seat and does paperwork during routine transports. Anyone can die at any time.

Including EMTs in ambulance crashes.

That's why your partner SHOULD be in the airway seat, and seat-belted in. Only an idiot sits on the squad bench when it is not absolutely necessary for patient care. And only an idiot would insist that he does.

[JPINFV]

I get pissed off when my partner sits in the airway seat and does paperwork during routine transports. Anyone can die at any time.

Well, lets get rid of taxis then because anyone can die at any time. Do you honestly think that a patient can't be monitored from the jump seat? What about patients (e.g. hip precaution patients, psych patients, patients who are on supplemental oxygen) who are being transported by ambulance because of non-life threatening reasons?

[mrmeaner]

I understand what your saying but think about this... three years ago I read a study conducted on ambulances. Any Crash over 35mph and anyone sitting on the bench had a 98% chance of not living through it seat belted or not.

just some food for thought

JJ

Which is a great selling point for the Sprinter style ambulances that the most services don't seem to like. The overall risk envolved is not enough to make people concerned I guess.

[HellsBells]

This guy is full of crap. They saw you get out of the cab you ass hole!

They should both loose their certifications, absolutely, and without a shadow of a doubt. I don't think the state needs to shut down the service, because I hope the family sues the two EMTs and the service, and takes them for every collective penny they are worth. Chapter 11 anyone?

This is way I'm glad we have a court system, that actually investigates accusations like this using facts and evidence. Not relying on knee jerk, emotional responses of citizens who go off half cocked after reading a single newspaper story.

[usapride2004]

Well, lets get rid of taxis then because anyone can die at any time. Do you honestly think that a patient can't be monitored from the jump seat? What about patients (e.g. hip precaution patients, psych patients, patients who are on supplemental oxygen) who are being transported by ambulance because of non-life threatening reasons?

Psych patients need to be closely monitored, that's why they are in an ambulance. We have a lot of "swallowers" that we transport, and you know what happens if you aren't paying attention, they take stuff out of the cabinets and EAT IT. I know, it's happened to a colleague of mine. Guess who is at fault for THAT.

My company does an unfortunate number of discharges and boring doctors appointments, just because the patient isn't actively dying, does not mean you should just ignore them. 1.) No patient should ever feel alone in an ambulance (as someone else said), 2.) I've had to divert quite a few patients being transfered for "non-life threatening reasons" to ERs because they developed a life threatening something-or-other. It happens all the time, and you know what, if you're not paying attention, you'll miss it.

And there is a big difference between "can" be monitored, and "actually is" monitored. Yelling, "How you doing?" every few minutes is not the same as quality patient care. Regardless of the reason, you are equally responsible for the care of that patient. If someone wants to call me an idiot for caring about ALL the patients I transport, knock your socks off. I bet you can figure out what my opinion of your patient care is as well.

As for the article above, if it accurately depicts what it claims to (accurate quotes, etc), than this guy is a tool bag, and has no place in this business. I know people like him, and I can't stand them. Anyone who would jeopardize the life of their patient like he seems to have, has NO PLACE in EMS.

[Dustdevil]

If someone wants to call me an idiot for caring about ALL the patients I transport, knock your socks off.

If you really think it is not possible to adequately monitor a patient from the safety of the captains seat, you may well be an idiot. I don't say that because I think you'll care. Most idiots don't. I say it because you obviously don't know what you're talking about. Maybe with a few years of real EMS experience behind you, you will.

[JPINFV]

My company does an unfortunate number of discharges and boring doctors appointments, just because the patient isn't actively dying, does not mean you should just ignore them.

Just because someone is sitting in the jump seat doesn't mean that they are ignoring the patient. Similarly, just because someone is doing paperwork (which, I might add, might tell you a lot more about the patient's medical history and conditions than a physical exam might or interviewing the patient) doesn't mean that they are ignoring the patient.

This also means that just because someone is sitting on the bench seat doesn't mean that they are monitoring the patient. I had a partner once who decided that the bench seat was the perfect place to be text messaging while transporting a patient. Let me add that I'm an avidly use all of my mirrors when driving and that the bench seat is very visible in my rear view mirror. Yea, I got to have fun filling out an incident report on that guy (there were other problems with that shift).

[Scaramedic]

Psych patients need to be closely monitored, that's why they are in an ambulance. We have a lot of "swallowers" that we transport, and you know what happens if you aren't paying attention, they take stuff out of the cabinets and EAT IT. I know, it's happened to a colleague of mine. Guess who is at fault for THAT.

What are you 3ft tall? Are you telling me you cannot see over the stretcher with a patient in semi Fowlers? If you can't I suggest you get yourself an L.A. phone book and strap yourself into the airway seat. The single most dangerous position for a Medic during transport is on the bench.

I try to do all procedures necessary in the back before we roll. I then plant my ass in the airway seat and strap on the seatbelt. From that position I can see my patient just fine, I can see the monitor, I can see any drips I have going and in case of a crash my ass will not be flying around in the back injuring my patient. If I have to do something en route I do it quick and get back in the airway seat.

If I have a critical patient odds are they are in need of airway control, I.E. they're intubated and on the vent. There is no better place to monitor the airway then at the head of the patient. Hence the name "AIRWAY" seat.

Your first priority is your safety. You are not doing your patient a damn bit of good if you knock yourself out when your partner swerves to avoid some idiot on a cell phone.

[EMS49393]

I'm an airway seat paramedic. I try like hell to accomplish everything I need to before that truck starts rolling so I may strap my ass into the safest, and most valuable seat in the back. My service uses a modified squatted box, which makes it about three feet shorter than regular boxes to allow us better access down narrow alleyways. The stretcher just about butts up to the bottom of the captains chair. Lucky for me I'm only about five feet tall, so leg room is never a problem.

Let me tell you (USApride) something, oh young, and rather insulting little EMT... I, like most of my colleagues, worked long and hard for the privilege of providing care to patients in a mobile fashion. At your very young age, and hence, few years in this field, do you really have a right to go off half-cocked and accuse providers of neglect simply because they prefer the idea of going home to their family should you inadvertently crash the ambulance they are in? I sit at the action table of my truck, in the captains seat, directly to the head of my patient. I have access to the patient, the patients airway, oxygen, and I can safely keep my monitor strapped in where I can see and hear any changes. If I have to get up to attend to an IV, I prefer to strap myself into the bench seat while I fix the problem, before moving back into my preferred seat. Rarely, almost never, am I up and around in the back of the truck while it is moving. I have a great dog that I love coming home to at night.

There are very few things in this world that I do not like. I do not like things flying around in my ambulance, including monitors, portable oxygen, and myself. I do young EMTs that think they know everything, and I do not like Barry Manilow.

As for the former paramedic in this article, the jury had deliberated at press time. You'll see the state has finished its investigation, and has already made its recommendations in regards to who is, and who is not, going to remain in EMS.