Paramedic sits up front on transfer, patient dies

[Dustdevil]

You know we need to scrap the whole "scene safety" crap anyway. It's antiquated and counterproductive. We should be, like the rest of the modern world, be thinking in terms of job safety.

Excellent point. The developers of the current curriculum were obviously low-timers or no-timers without a clue of the realities of EMS practice. This is why it takes so long, after graduating the average programme, to actually become a competent provider. Why, even after a couple of decades of practice, providers still don't have a clue about the unacceptability of their practices. And the DOT putting governmental legitimacy on this antiquated curriculum leads way too many people to believe that it is somehow all they need to know. That's why they think the three-month programme is just as good as the two-year programme. And amazingly, since they don't know what they don't know, they rarely ever even realise it.

[mediccjh]

Scene safety should be replaced with situational awareness. If you notice any of my posts, that's the term I use. "Scene safety" seems to lead the provider that once you get there and the scene is safe, nothing will happen. How deadly wrong that could be.....

[streethealer535]

And amazingly, since they don't know what they don't know, they rarely ever even realise it.

Dust your infinite wisdom shows again!!! I spent 8 years as a EMT-B and EMT-I and until I started my Paramedic program (AS degree with A&P 1 & 2) I had no Idea what I did not know or did not truly understand. Now my most used statement to all my partners and students is this.

"You don't know what you don't know until you learn it!!"

I belive this goes for everything in life not just EMS.

As for A&P being mandatory I like to link it to other professions... Mechanics don't learn to fix problems they learn how a car works and how to trouble shoot to find the problem... same thought process just a different patient. We need to know the human body inside and out if we ever hope to trouble shoot patient complaints and use CRITICAL THINKING!!!

[FutureCop01]

Thats horrible. By the sounds of it, they didn't even look at her. To check on her. I'm speech less.

[theniece]

While the Paramedic may be the ultimate provider in charge of the ambulance, even an EMT-B should know that you NEVER, EVER leave the patient alone, for any reason whatsoever. Especially on an ALS transfer for Heaven sake. She was on a freaking vent... what would make you think that it's OK to sit up front? I get pissed off when my partner sits in the airway seat and does paperwork during routine transports. Anyone can die at any time. That is why they're in a damn ambulance. Plus they obviously lied about the whole thing. Batteries fell out of the monitor MY ASS! This guy is full of crap. They saw you get out of the cab you ass hole!

They should both loose their certifications, absolutely, and without a shadow of a doubt. I don't think the state needs to shut down the service, because I hope the family sues the two EMTs and the service, and takes them for every collective penny they are worth. Chapter 11 anyone?

And we wonder why EMS is the red-headed step child of public safety/healthcare...

I agree with you 110%

[theniece]

follow the story there are too many stories, it seems to me they done told so many lies they can't cover up anymore, Thats ok God don't like UGLY I think they should shut down the whole company

[spenac]

If it actually happened as reported people should lose certification.

But I have also seen how peoples emotions have clouded what they thought had happened. Family gets upset think they saw medic get out of cab instead of patient compartment. When they actually got out of side door. I have family start saying we shocked a patient and did CPR when no action was taken because patient was to far gone to even start. Peoples minds get clouded during stress.

Did this happen this time? I do not know. I was not there. The only thing that is clear is that someone died. Was death because of negligence? Really only the two people in the ambulance know.

[thiswillbenothingkid]

Hi guys, my first 'proper' post here, I notice the discussion about the 'airline seat' vs the bench seat, especially the post about the bench seats being so dangerous. I take it most of the ambulances over there have a bench seat then?

Isn't this something that the manufacturers have a responsibility for? If bench seats are dangerous why are they even on the trucks?

Over here all new ambos conform to european standards, they are voluntary standards but in the UK they wouldn't shift an ambo that doesn't conform to them. The main things that the standards cover are; space around the seating for patients, attendants or escorts, space between the side walls of the ambo and the stretcher, that all seats have the capability to face forwards or backwards. Other items of interest is that all equipment is either stowed in lockers or if on display such as monitoring equipment that the mountings can stand an force of 10G, they are tilt tested and most ambulances over here have either a tail lift or a ramp.

Believe it or not there is a performance standard which, I could be wrong but I dont fancy shelling out £118 to read the standards, states that the thing should be able to hit sixty miles an hour within about 40 seconds.

Also our service has the fixed bulkhead option that means that you can't slip through to the cab for a sip of coffee. Once you start rolling you are stuck with the patient, no matter how bad they smell

Ah, it appears that by knowing this I may be a whacker :wink:

As for the original topic, the media do have the incredible knack of jumping on a controversial subject and making it seem worse, as has been said there are only two people who know what happened on that journey.

[spenac]

Hi guys, my first 'proper' post here, I notice the discussion about the 'airline seat' vs the bench seat, especially the post about the bench seats being so dangerous. I take it most of the ambulances over there have a bench seat then?

Isn't this something that the manufacturers have a responsibility for? If bench seats are dangerous why are they even on the trucks?

Over here all new ambos conform to european standards, they are voluntary standards but in the UK they wouldn't shift an ambo that doesn't conform to them. The main things that the standards cover are; space around the seating for patients, attendants or escorts, space between the side walls of the ambo and the stretcher, that all seats have the capability to face forwards or backwards. Other items of interest is that all equipment is either stowed in lockers or if on display such as monitoring equipment that the mountings can stand an force of 10G, they are tilt tested and most ambulances over here have either a tail lift or a ramp.

Believe it or not there is a performance standard which, I could be wrong but I dont fancy shelling out £118 to read the standards, states that the thing should be able to hit sixty miles an hour within about 40 seconds.

Also our service has the fixed bulkhead option that means that you can't slip through to the cab for a sip of coffee. Once you start rolling you are stuck with the patient, no matter how bad they smell

Ah, it appears that by knowing this I may be a whacker :wink:

As for the original topic, the media do have the incredible knack of jumping on a controversial subject and making it seem worse, as has been said there are only two people who know what happened on that journey.

This could have been you first proper post if this was a discussion about ambulance safety. Your post was excellent but conveys nothing to the topic. Sorry to nit pick. Welcome to the city, I like forward to more great posts by you.

[firedoc5]

It use to be we had a squad bench and a jump seat at the head of the cot. But now most on the road have a squad bench Jump seat, and with the newer models have a single seat on the other side of the patient across from the squad bench. They're coming out with all different kinds now.