American Fire Fighters demoted for not speaking Spanish

[mediccjh]

such reasoned discourse... your ancestors also bled patients and owned slaves... why don't you

You would be wrong. My family came from Italy in 1902, which was AFTER slavery was banished. And I am also half-Irish, so where do I start there about how the Irish were treated in the USA? Did you see Gangs of New York? While not totally factually accurate, the treatment of the Irish in that movie was accurate.

Please ask before you attack my family. In most cultures, this would mean war, and I would have to paint myself and put on my kilt.

And in referring to liberals, I was referring to Oregon. The Left Coast is majority liberal, and most of them are the ones who believe we should change our language for immigrants. And this comes from someone who grew up liberal.

[chbare]

You would be wrong. My family came from Italy in 1902, which was AFTER slavery was banished. And I am also half-Irish, so where do I start there about how the Irish were treated in the USA? Did you see Gangs of New York? While not totally factually accurate, the treatment of the Irish in that movie was accurate.

Please ask before you attack my family. In most cultures, this would mean war, and I would have to paint myself and put on my kilt.

And in referring to liberals, I was referring to Oregon. The Left Coast is majority liberal, and most of them are the ones who believe we should change our language for immigrants. And this comes from someone who grew up liberal.

Tell us how you really feel. I have to agree. So far, the official language in our country is English. Why is it so difficult to expect people to learn English if they wish to live and work in our country?

My mother's ancestors immigrated from Romania and Italy in the early 1900's as well. My father's ancestors fled to this country from Lithuania during world war II. They had to learn English and assimilate into society, why can we not expect the same today?

Take care,

chbare.

[Ecnalubma08]

Wtf? This PISSES me off! People who come to America need to learn English!!!!

[brentoli]

There is my question.

If I moved to France, would I need to learn French? If I moved to Spain would I need to know Spanish? Maybe not for my business, but to get by in the culture? To not make the effort is selfish. Immigration policy aside, why should natural born citizens be punished because of immigrants? Whats going to be the next buzzword for Affirmative Action for Hispanics? Seems it is what it is coming down to.

[DwayneEMTP]

My mother's ancestors immigrated from Romania and Italy in the early 1900's as well. My father's ancestors fled to this country from Lithuania during world war II. They had to learn English and assimilate into society, why can we not expect the same today?

Take care,

chbare.

Because it's unrealistic with the current political climate. Should we expect it? You bet! Can we realistically expect it? No...

Our forefathers learned the language because it was necessary to survive. If they wanted to work, to feed their families, to have a place to live, they needed to be able to communicate.

That is no longer the case. We (Meaning our government/society) have taught immigrants that it is not necessary to learn English. If they suffer from that ignorance then we'll create a program to resolve it in a way that doesn't unfairly thrust personal responsibility on them (tongue in cheek of course)

I get as indignant as anyone about this. But I get even more indignant by ignorance such as:

Wtf? This PISSES me off! People who come to America need to learn English!!!!

We don't really care what pisses you off when you simply rant like a child. This is why this situation doesn't change. Too often you hear people make such comments but can't be bothered to vote, or to develop an intelligent opinion that they can productively share with others. As long as we continue to rant and cry like children the communion that is necessary to create these changes will remain beyond our grasp.

So, again. Should we expect immigrants to learn English? Yes. Can we expect it any time soon? I don't believe so.

Dwayne

[brentoli]

Anybody learned in the anthropology field? Or Roman History?

I am curious, did the Romans lose their sense of personal responsibility before their empire collapsed?

[brentoli]

Please ask before you attack my family. In most cultures, this would mean war, and I would have to paint myself and put on my kilt.

:brave: :brave: :brave: :brave: :brave: :brave: :brave: :brave: :brave:

[Oscar]

Mmmmm.... That's okay I guess. Glad to have someone to debate language issues with. Here's my question. At one point does one culture have the duty to adapt to the other? Its funny you mention Canada, and the issue of the French speaking population. It always made me scratch my head how a province that makes up less than a quarter of the population of the country could so drastically influence a country's politics. I mean, imagine if the State of California, which is the closest thing we have to Quebec with a population making of 11% of our total, had enough sway to influence how every single sign, billboard, greeting and label were printed? That would be insane. The rest of the country would just say "Eff you, California, we're dumping you into the ocean" if they tried something like that. Yet Quebec was able to pull it off. 1/4 of the population was accommodated while 3/4 was inconvenienced, not to mention the economic, social, and environmental impact of printing everything in two languages to satisfy a group of people that was well in the minority. That's not good government and its not good democracy, either, IMHO.

At what point does a people's cultural identity have to take second place to society's ability to function? My personal feeling is that if you want to have your own cultural identity so much, go for it. Just don't rely on others when your identity doesn't allow you to function in the modern world.

As an aside, anyone ever notice, generally speaking, the more someone is so worried about their cultural heritage and pride the less likely they are to have to get up to go to work in the morning? And that goes for everyone, including Mary Lou and Boseevus whining about the Confederate flag on the front porch.

I think US policy is regularly and directly influenced by small minorities (excluding Lobbyists and other special interests). A case in point is US policy towards Cuba and Vietnam.

The US has embargoed Cuba for decades following the Cuban Revolution. I know about Castro, Batista, the missile crisis, Bay of Pigs incident, etc.

The US fought a prolonged shooting war in Vietnam with 58,000+ KIA and an unknown (to me anyway) number of casualties and unaccounted for MIAs.

It surprised me when we recently purchased some bedroom furniture (in the US)- stamped on the back was 'Made in Vietnam'.

So why is it that the US has apparently normalized trade relations with Vietnam, but still has the Cuban embargo in place, unless for political pressure from the Cuban exile community (well, and maybe cheap imports)?

I'll be all ears if someone can OBJECTIVELY explain this apparent disparity in US foreign policy.

This is one example and I know there are others, but didn't want to write a book.

As for language usage, I feel that if you choose live in a given country and accept the benefits of living in said country, you should learn said country's language. If you choose to speak your native tongue at home or with friends, that's fine. US emigrees know that English is the quasi-official language before arriving here, so deal with it and take an ESL (English as a Second Language) class.

[Dustdevil]

So why is it that the US has apparently normalized trade relations with Vietnam, but still has the Cuban embargo in place, unless for political pressure from the Cuban exile community (well, and maybe cheap imports)?

I'll be all ears if someone can OBJECTIVELY explain this apparent disparity in US foreign policy.

Well, I can give you an objective explanation, but the conclusion will only be speculation, not fact. That is that the disparity in policy is a direct result in the disparity in public sentiment. Most Americans simply feel differently about Vietnam than they do about Cuba, and government policy tends to reflect that sentiment.

Cuban immigrants comprise a significant political force in this country, and most of them simply do not want normalised relations with the Cuban government. They want two things: They want to punish the Cuban government, and they want Cubans to be able to immigrate to the U.S. without all the hassles that confront immigrants from other countries. Neither of those ends would be served by normalised relations.

Regarding Vietnam, there simply is no political groundswell of Vietnamese citizens. Unlike the Cubans, they assimilate and go about living their lives, making the best of it, without a lot of focus on the state of the world or their former land. They are more pragmatic about life. Vietnamese people are guided by typical Asian stoicism. They lack the Latin temper and passion that leads Cubans (and Mexicans, and Puerto Ricans) to raise more Hell. Consequently, the fire dies, and people move on from the past much quicker.

Of course, there is also the national shame that consumes so many regarding Vietnam. A great many people in the U.S. who are old enough to even remember Vietnam, feel a shame over it, and therefore try to atone, forget it, and put it behind them. Restoring normalised relations is a large step towards doing that.

There is no national shame regarding our relationship with Cuba. Yet. But it does seem to be getting there. With over fifty years now passed, more and more Americans -- especially those born since the end of the Cold War -- are starting to see this as a senseless Hatfield-and-McCoys feud that continues despite few even remembering why it started. Because of that, there will be increasing pro-Cuban sentiment rising in our immediate future. I already see quite a bit of it. But it's going to take a lot more than a bunch of whiny liberals to drown out the voices of the Cuban-American community. After all, they are a minority, and we can't go against the wishes of a minority community. That's not the American way.

[Scaramedic]

Quick and simple.

We have a positive political relationship with the Vietnamese government, the Paris Peace accord recognized the independence of the Vietnam Republic. We withdrew our troops and the North took the South. In 1986 the Communist Party moved towards a free trade program. We now not only trade freely with Vietnam we even have an Embassy in Hanoi.

Cuba and the U.S. have no political relationship. We still have an embargo against doing business with Cuba and have no embassy there.