Repost of a previous question, fire and ems together

[akflightmedic]

Lets be fair Boe, you say they are happy because they have a choice.

Yes they have a choice HOWEVER they are still dual certified and if told to get on an engine, or to go fight the big one, they will have to comply.

I think you forget how many great medics are out there unable to work for most of the FL cities and counties BECAUSE they do NOT have a choice. They have to be dual certified or no job.

That is the choice or non choice that most of us take exception to. For example, when county fire took over my old county EMS system, we had a ton of medics that had no desire to be FFs. Most of them had been in EMS for 10-20 years as medics. They were told to crosstrain or lose their jobs. Then another option came up that would grandfather them but they would lose rank, pay, senority,etc. All a load of BS my friend.

Plus when the merger was occurring, many of the FD guys went to a quickie medic skool to get their medic. WHY?? Because they stated they wanted the 7K a year increase in pay, plus they had enough senority where they would not have to be on "the box".

Yes, there are systems where it works, there are systems that appear to be top notch in the dual cert arena, however they were not all like that. They all have had their growing pains and working out of kinks to endure and many of them still have the same issues, they just hide them better.

For someone like yourself Boe, who has not been out of the system you are used to there in FL, yes its great and wonderful. But if you knew what you didnt know, such as how it is in EMS only systems, and how great it was to be a medic in those systems, you would have a great resource for comparison. As it stands now, you have nothing to fall on other than what you see around you and of course that is all you know. The rest is heresay.

[mediccjh]

Go to New York.

Go to Philly.

Go to LA County and LA City.

There you will see why Fire should NOT be a part of EMS. Work together, but have separate identities.

This comes from a medic who worked in NYC. Most of my friends do fire, and they support my opinion.

[boeingb13]

What you said AK, about me not knowing other than what I see in my system is the exact reason I opened this question back up.

And the second time around everyone has given great responses, on their feelings towards the matter. I appreciate everyone taking the time to go over this again.

I have come to find that ems and fire combined is not a one size fits all, its somehing that has to be catered to each community. I have also come to find, if you want to fight fire you shouldn't go to a fly by night medic school just to get a raise, because you're probably not going to pay alot of attention and when the time comes when you're the only medic on scene, what are you going to fall back on. If you did'nt want it in the first place 9 times out of 10 these people are not going to keep up on the skills. Which puts lives at stake and drives patient care into the ground.

Once again, thank you all for your honest opinions.

[Dustdevil]

...i've just always had the belief that we work together, as a team we can accomplish anything that comes our way.

Really? Then how about we "team" you with the public transportation service instead of the fire department, so you can handle ALL the transportation needs of the community, instead of just the emergency ones? How about we give you the "choice" of working the ambulance, the bus, the taxi, or the handi-van? Wouldn't that make more sense?

Then we can "team" the fire department with the water department to handle all the other water needs of the community, giving the firemonkeys the "choice" of riding a truck or running a sewage station.

So seriously now, are you really all about choice, teamwork, and handling "anything that comes our way" in an intelligent manner? If so, welcome to the water department.

[Richard B the EMT]

As in the previous postings on this subject that I have made, mine is strictly anecdotal, not scientific, in nature.

It seems that in fire departments where they decided, "in house", to try and increase their usefulness to the community that they serve, by adding EMS, most are good, successful departments in both fire fighting and EMS issues.

On the other hand, in fire departments where the local or state elected officials decided to try and increase their usefulness to the community that they serve (the fire department's usefulness, not the politicians), by adding EMS, there is resentment on both the fire fighting and EMS sides. Nobody likes having such way different duties forced down their throats, especially when it is the combining of 2 existing agencies, each having their traditions, histories, protocols, and, perhaps, a distrust of "outsiders" represented by "the other side".

While I have never personally witnessed this, I have heard it reported by others. Remember, I worked, prior to my injuries in the line of duty, out of the first combined Fire/EMS house in the FDNY. We have 4 BLS ambulances (47-Adam, 47-Boy, 47-Charlie, and 47-David), 2 ALS ambulances, 47-Willie, and 47-Zebra, which is a "HazTec" for possible hazardous materials responses, an EMS supervisor's unit (called a "Conditions Car", ours, being EMS Station 47, is "Conditions 47"), Engine 265, Ladder 121, and Fire Battalion 47. Most of what I hear, to the negative, about this combined house is from personnel NOT assigned to the house.

Also, as more and more personnel get hired, after the FDNY/EMS Merger of March 17, 1996, it has become the norm, as these new guys never knew a time when there wasn't EMS in the fire service, or, if you prefer, fire fighting in the EMS.

I maintain that the EMTs, the Paramedics, the "Engineers", and the "Truckees", within what each does as a specialty, are all good at their jobs, so, "It's ALL good!"

Also, for those who might ask, I am an EMT in the FDNY's EMS Command, claiming municipal service from June 1985, and overall ambulance service in the volunteer, private, and municipal sectors from September of 1973.