Dustdevil Posted April 20, 2008 Posted April 20, 2008 I knew this would happen. In fact, I would have put a thousand dollars on it. I did hold out some hope that this, being a mature adult and not another kid right out of high school, would read and understand objectively what was being said here. Optimism never pays off here though. Nobody attacked your education. We tried to give you the advice that you claim you wanted, which was to help you with your education. Mnemonics like this are a crutch. Even the good instructors throw them out there, because they know there are a lot of idiots who simply cannot learn or function without them. But they are really not doing you any favours with them. What we are trying to tell you is -- unless you are one of the aforementioned idiots -- your educational process would probably do better to ignore those crutches meant only for the weak. Do you not want us to be honest with you? Do you not want advice on how to make the best of this education you are investing so much in? I think you do. The fact that your agency does not utilise 12-leads is all the more reason why you should master it in school. Because if you don't get plenty of opportunity to practise it on the job, you are never going to get the chance to master it after school, which will make you a pretty lame medic. Do you want to do just the bare minimum it takes to get a patch, or do you want to be a medical professional? As for the caps thing, it's in the site rules. You remember those, right? Those are the policies you agreed to when you joined the site. Just like in paramedic school, everything is a lot easier when you do the reading assignment first. I don't know how long you've been on the Internet, but this can't be the first time that somebody has asked you not to do that (unless you're on AOL, which is different from the real Internet, lol). Anyhow, we are trying to help you with your education. Nobody has slammed you or your education. I hope that you can calm down, step back, and see that. If you stick around, you'll be a better medic for it. If not, it's your loss. But stay or not, I can assure you this is not the last time somebody will offer you advice that you don't think you need. It's time to learn to deal with it or, better yet, benefit from it. Best of luck!
gas1 Posted April 20, 2008 Posted April 20, 2008 hey dust, I see that constructive information has once again fallen by the wayside. I was just checking in as I am settled in at T 1 and I sent a couple of emails to ya'. I hadnt heard back so drop me a line. jerry 8)
JPINFV Posted April 20, 2008 Posted April 20, 2008 This is how I see the problem: Your cardiology course should have covered cardiac A&P, coronary vessel and heart wall relationship, and localization of changes in such depth that it should be second nature when you are looking at a 12 lead. Do they even cover Eithoven's triangle and limb lead axis relationship in school or is it simply the white and right smoke over fire stuff? I do not have an aversion to memory aids; however, a foundation of knowledge and understanding must exist. Not a challenge or flame AnthonyM83, I just see allot of people simply remember a phrase without having any real understanding of the actual physiology behind the phrase. Take care, chbare. White on right, smoke over fire, clouds over grass, chocolate is close to the heart. On a serious note, my physiology course took 2-3 lectures just going over the basics of ECGs starting with dipoles and and correlating not only each wave to it's source, but also why the depolarization creates that wave.
Freaknuggetz_chick Posted April 20, 2008 Posted April 20, 2008 i got taught ISAL as "i suck at leads" just a nice n easy way to recall which leads refer to which part of the heart. the physiology and everything is all the same, and the specifics for whats affected when just falls into place when you can quickly and succinctly "see" which part is affected. but me personally, i love memory aids. i've found them to be very useful, especially in new territories of information....... eventually they get forgotten or discarded, but they certainly had a welcome place in my education. the patho and anatomy stay, and the memory aids become part of my ingrained routine.
AnthonyM83 Posted April 20, 2008 Posted April 20, 2008 Hmmm. Honestly I don't see much of a difference between memorizing that white goes on the upper right and black on the upper left versus white over right smoke over fire. You're not circumventing understanding leads, you're just making it easier to associate the white colored cable with the upper left position.
scott33 Posted April 20, 2008 Posted April 20, 2008 I fully agree that learning mnemonics should never take the place of having a good insight into their application. Knowing "what they stand for" really means nothing, and it would be a sad day if cardiology were to be taught this way exclusively. Kind of reminds me of when I attended Bob Page's EKG seminar (and very good it was too) where I had to listen to one perturbed individual, complaining that she could have easily learned in 20 minutes from Bob Page, what she already "had to endure" over two semesters at university. ](*,)
spenac Posted April 20, 2008 Posted April 20, 2008 I fully agree that learning mnemonics should never take the place of having a good insight into their application. Knowing "what they stand for" really means nothing, and it would be a sad day if cardiology were to be taught this way exclusively. Kind of reminds me of when I attended Bob Page's EKG seminar (and very good it was too) where I had to listen to one perturbed individual, complaining that she could have easily learned in 20 minutes from Bob Page, what she already "had to endure" over two semesters at university. ](*,) OK I hate you now. I want to go to the Bob Page EKG seminar. Love his book. OK don't really hate you just envious.
scott33 Posted April 20, 2008 Posted April 20, 2008 His book and seminars are excellent, and I and will continue to recommend them! It is assumed however, that you will have a good grasp of basic cardiology in the first instance, as he doesn't teach (or will only touch upon) the following "need to knows" at his seminars: anatomy & physiology, Eindhoven's triangle, the "drop of blood" through all the structures of the heart, coronary vasculature, cardiac diseases, or even basic rhythm interpretation. This is where the couple of semesters worth of education should come into play.
AnthonyM83 Posted April 20, 2008 Posted April 20, 2008 It is assumed however, that you will have a good grasp of basic cardiology in the first instance, as he doesn't teach (or will only touch upon) the following "need to knows" at his seminars: anatomy & physiology, Eindhoven's triangle, the "drop of blood" through all the structures of the heart, coronary vasculature, cardiac diseases, or even basic rhythm interpretation. This is where the couple of semesters worth of education should come into play. I might get burned by this. . . but does it really take a couple semesters of education to understand the stuff Scott listed IN DEEP DEPTH? (Every single structure, pathway, conduction, triangle, vasculature, basic rhythms) (BTW, not saying we don't need semesters worth, I just mean does it take an entire year of school to understand just BASIC cardiology...if it did medical school would be a lot longer)
Dustdevil Posted April 20, 2008 Posted April 20, 2008 (BTW, not saying we don't need semesters worth, I just mean does it take an entire year of school to understand just BASIC cardiology...if it did medical school would be a lot longer) Medical School = 10 hours a day, 5 days a week Paramedic School = 4 hours a night, three nights a week. That's the difference.
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