mandaorton Posted April 23, 2008 Posted April 23, 2008 I had my first MVA sunday morning and I had a DOA. So now my director wants to put me through a CISD, due to the fact that it was my first mva and there was the doa he is afraid that the next mva i will second guess myself in the patient care aspect of the job is this normal
DwayneEMTP Posted April 23, 2008 Posted April 23, 2008 How do you feel about it? Were you shook up? Did you second guess yourself while on scene? Any concerns that you'll do so on the next one? Are you showing negative, unreasonable mental/physical effects since it's happened? If it's important to him, is there some reason he won't send you to a professional instead of the CISD? (And unless there is something way different about your organization, don't let him pretend that this meeting is run by a professional.) There are many threads here addressing CISD, and most will tell you it's been PROVEN to be a myth, many times causing much more harm than good. Take a look at those threads via the search function, but keep your eye on this one as well as there are many wrinkly old farts here that have very educated opinions on the matter. There is a ton of data on CISD, most of it showing negative results for those that didn't want to attend. I don't believe there is the same data regarding those that felt that this was a good choice for them personally. Good luck to you. Dwayne
rock_shoes Posted April 23, 2008 Posted April 23, 2008 I had my first MVA sunday morning and I had a DOA. So now my director wants to put me through a CISD, due to the fact that it was my first mva and there was the doa he is afraid that the next mva i will second guess myself in the patient care aspect of the job is this normal Sounds like a "knee-jerk" reaction on the part of your director. Appropriate help from a mental health professional should be made available to you if you need it. There is no justifiable reason to force someone into a CISD for a call like this. So you were exposed to a dead body on the job. Big deal. It's not exactly an unusual occurence in EMS.
DwayneEMTP Posted April 23, 2008 Posted April 23, 2008 I had my first MVA sunday morning and I had a DOA. So now my director wants to put me through a CISD, due to the fact that it was my first mva and there was the doa he is afraid that the next mva i will second guess myself in the patient care aspect of the job is this normal And isn't four days past quite a bit longer than usual for CISD?
mandaorton Posted April 23, 2008 Author Posted April 23, 2008 DwayneEMTB, I thought the same thing as far as it being 4 days later!!! I thought that it is usually held within like 72 hours. I didnt second guess myself on the scene, however I was the first one to respond to the call it was like 3 miles from my home. and in this area we are all volunteers, so it isnt uncommon for us to respond in our own vehicles. I checked for a radial pulse and couldnt find one and as the fire dept, was doing the extrication I had to step back and regroup, but i havent really shown an unreasonable mental/physical effects, I think its just that with it being my very first one he wants to make sure that I deal with it in the best possible manner. I know that it isnt uncommon to exposed to a dead body on the job. I just think that maybe he is trying to make sure that I deal with it and can continue to do my job
DwayneEMTP Posted April 23, 2008 Posted April 23, 2008 One of the down sides of our touchy feely age is that ANY reaction is considered harmful. I've not been long in EMS, but I've seen some terrible things in life, and as most here will tell you, some reaction is normal. One of the problems of services that want to push their people to seek help, is that often those people don't need help! But, after enough resouces are thrown at them they can often be convinced that coping well on your own is a symptom that you are not coping well...see what I mean? They have proven that people that are emotionally equiped to deal with stressful situations can be GIVEN issues at the hands of those untrained in psychology. If you feel that you're ok, then probably you are. I had management talk to me several times after a shift where I had 3 patients die out of six. I was fine, but the basic that was riding with me wasn't. For him seeking help might be a good idea, for me, not so much. See? You have a responsibility to yourself, your family and your coworkers to seek help if you feel, or show s/s of needing it. It's not a macho issue. But if you're ok...you're ok. Tell your boss thanks, but no thanks, but you'll let him know if the situation changes. Good for him for asking, but more often than not the offer has to do with making him feel good for helping, instead of actually focusing on your needs. It sounds to me like you handled it, and continue to handle it fine. He was dead, you couldn't have saved him, you'll see a bunch more just like him. Good for you for not turning it into a major drama. Keep us informed, would you? You sound like a stand up gal, but I'd be curious to hear how your boss deals with this. Your being ok may cause him to need counseling. :wink: Dwayne Edit: No changes made that should effect the flow of conversation.
Eydawn Posted April 23, 2008 Posted April 23, 2008 Ah, you're going to implement the flow of conversation... by effecting it... I think you meant nothing that will AFFECT the flow of conversation... Sorry. OCD pet peeve moment. Get it right! Why are you pulling its tail? It's a lovely day outside! What was the effect of that punch you threw? Did it affect you? Walk right on through... watch out for that snowball he threw! /grammar nazi mode. Wendy CO EMT-B
Asysin2leads Posted April 23, 2008 Posted April 23, 2008 Well, your employer puts you in a poor situation... for me a pulse check is a very poor and subjective measure of whether someone is DOA or not. Yeah, I know it goes against what the AHA says about procedure in evaluating the unresponsive, but I submit that while finding the presence of a pulse is easy, confirming the absence of a pulse is hard. An apneic and hypotensive person can easily mimic a DOA, and vice versa. But if you feel okay about it, then tell your employer. Invite your employer to attend CISD if he feels that shooken up about it.
Canadian Caesar Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 I agree. Mind you, if there were "injuries incompatable with life" that would explain both the DOA pronouncement and the manager's interest in holding a CISM debriefing.
Dustdevil Posted April 24, 2008 Posted April 24, 2008 If you are exhibiting signs of PTSD, you need to see a mental health professional. Maybe the guy sees something that you do not and is trying to help, but simply hasn't read a professional journal in twenty years. If so, his heart is in the right place, but his head is empty. He's an idiot. In fact, his not knowing how seriously out of date his thinking is makes me only wonder what other EMS concepts he hasn't bothered to update himself on in two decades. I'd be looking for another employer, not CISD. But, I digress... If you are not exhibiting signs of PTSD (to yourself or to others) you need to just go on with your life as if nothing ever happened. Dwelling on it in CISD doesn't cure PTSD, it causes it.
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