FDNY EMTs do not let Private Medics help with choking child

[medic8]

It depends on your beliefs, whether you believe in the famous 'Just world hypothesis' or if you believe that the world has gone so crazy we got no morals or standards whatsoever.

[kjohnson55]

I believe that no matter if they are rivals just becuase we wear different uniforms than other companies we all signed on to this job with the intent to help others. Stop being school kids and grow up people lives depend on your skills not the color of your uniform or the writing on the ambulance.

[hertzvanrental]

I'm just wondering, if there was three of them, one in the drivers seat and two in the back then why would they think it's a signal to get going? Surely the crew in the back would notice if the driver was in the front or not! Or is that just too easy?

[tskstorm]

the question would be, were their cfr's(firefighters, pd) on scene? if so one could assume it was them ...

[Richard B the EMT]

Not furthering the story along, but I just realized there is a small problem with phrasing here.

When we in the FDNY or FDNY EMS refer to a CFR Engine, we are talking about Certified First Responder (Defibrillator equipped) Engine company, not a Crash Fire Rescue Engine company.

Hope that might clear up at least that bit of possible confusion.

On another point, FDNY EMS units, and all units within the NYC 9-1-1 system are 2 man crews, so if there are 3 aboard, it means they have an observer or student with them.

[tskstorm]

Not furthering the story along, but I just realized there is a small problem with phrasing here.

When we in the FDNY or FDNY EMS refer to a CFR Engine, we are talking about Certified First Responder (Defibrillator equipped) Engine company, not a Crash Fire Rescue Engine company.

Hope that might clear up at least that bit of possible confusion.

On another point, FDNY EMS units, and all units within the NYC 9-1-1 system are 2 man crews, so if there are 3 aboard, it means they have an observer or student with them.

The third involved here, from the original story seems to have been a conditions boss ... but it doesn't seem likely.

[fenwayfrankee]

In our system LTs and CAPTs are EMTs. Deputy superintendents and higher are paramedics. There are 2 LTs on per shift and 1 D/S. Being a tiered system there are far more BLS trucks than ALS. There is somewhat of a mantra here: "EMTs answer to bars, and MEDICs answer to stars". The LTs enforce the operational side of things, as well as clinical supervision of the EMTs. So unless they are telling an ALS to wash a truck or something like that, their supervision is non-existent. The paramedics are in a sense clinical supervisors of the BLS, not for disciplinary purposes but to promote patient care.

As far as the BLS crew taking off, I am not sure we know all the facts, and we were not there so its hard to judge. If it was a misunderstaning on whether the ALS was there then it is a horrible ACCIDENT. If it was intentional then there is a problem. Working as an EMT is my system I have left a scene with a potentially worthy ALS patient with a private ALS onscene. Not all MEDICs are created equally, which is quite evident in this area. On the flip side, if the patient is an acute medical pt (not trauma), I would let them in. The potential discipline from OEMS is not worth the risk. If they want to get in back and screw around its their perogative. And I am not going to get involved. They can get in and do everything they want on the way to the hospital because we are leaving. So in this case I would let them in.

As far as the supervisor being onscene, why didn't he/she get in the back of the BLS truck. This is definitely a case that needs 2 sets of hands in back. Everyones goal should be patient care so ditch the supervisor SUV, it will still be there when you get back. And if its not, there is a fleet of them that look just like it.

I am not familiar with the interaction between FDNY EMS and the private providers. In our system when they are sent we have no radio contact with them. A call is given from the turret via phone to their dispatcher. And after that its a relay of info between the dispatchers. This by far is not the perfect system. Luckily this happens very infrequently. Private BLS is sent only on very minor illness/, and private ALS very, very infrequently is sent on anything. Especially to intercept our BLS. If a call is has been given to the privates and enroute has been modified to require an ALS response, the private is usually cancelled and our ALS/BLS units respond. If a private is onscene requesting ALS they get a ALS/BLS response.

[FormerEMSLT297]

I NYC, the "privates" mean private hospitals that are contracted to do 9-1-1 calls,,,

They are on the same radio freq. Unless you knew what you were listening to, you could not know that 13X is a FDNY ALS unit and 13W is a "private unit... they all sound the same and have direct comm with each other.