substance abuse in ems

[Richard B the EMT]

When I started in municipal NYC EMS, they told me they reserved the right to put the cup in front of me, to pee in. When FDNY took over, they implemented random drug testing.

Theoretically, they go to one unit per station per tour. If one of the individuals on that unit are on an overtime tour when the testers return, the individual gets tested a second time. Bad part of the policy is, if one of the duo goes down, even if the other only met the partner for the first time ever on overtime, 15 minutes prior, BOTH go down.

I don't particularly like it, as it turns all of us into "cops" for our own self preservation. Some jerk-off I just met, neither of us knowing the other, and my career is in that person's hands (if they are using).

[spenac]

Not so fast spenac ---- a person with a mental disorder falls under the Americans with Disabilities Act -- plus there is a good chance their lawyer can make the case that it is the job that caused the problem --- in your system, how would you define slowed reaction times (especially if its an EMT) --- and once you do find they are 30 seconds slower to get to a call --- do you remember the crew that slept through the first tone one time, that you didnt fire ----- or the medics who wrecked a truck that you didnt fire.

Not so fast crotch, ADA does make exceptions. Certain jobs there is just no way to make allowances. So no real point to argue with you here. ADA does not apply in this case.

[crotchitymedic1986]

I agree, but once the employee is yours, he/she is yours. You have to make reasonable accomodations, and what is reasonable to a buracrat may differ from us -- generally, being moody and sleepy arent grounds for dismissal. We are not talking about crazy/crazy here, where they are a danger --we are talking about those who are depressed. And many smaller departments do not have light-duty options -- I am not saying you cant get rid of them, just pointing out they have legitimate avenues of regress (especially since they are about to lose their job and health insurance, they have nothing to lose in fighting you). Especially, if they claim the depression is job related.

[spenac]

I agree, but once the employee is yours, he/she is yours. You have to make reasonable accomodations, and what is reasonable to a buracrat may differ from us -- generally, being moody and sleepy arent grounds for dismissal. We are not talking about crazy/crazy here, where they are a danger --we are talking about those who are depressed. And many smaller departments do not have light-duty options -- I am not saying you cant get rid of them, just pointing out they have legitimate avenues of regress (especially since they are about to lose their job and health insurance, they have nothing to lose in fighting you). Especially, if they claim the depression is job related.

Thats a workers comp claim if they can make it stick, so still out of my station. But again there is no way to reasonably accomadate someone that is a danger to their patients. Your primary job desciption is patient care. Now as to people on meds for mental illness such as depression I have worked with some that did their jobs properly and safely. But if they can not function when on their meds out they go, and you will not lose if he claims ADA.

[pguy280]

[funkytomtom]

I agree with helimedic...a little weed, big deal, as long as its not on shift. That said, if you are smoking weed, you have to realize that your jeapordizing your career and live with the consequences if they roll around. Many of the ski patrollers I know use illicit drugs even beyond marijuana, but they do have the good sense to avoid using on the job. It IS indeed funny how alcoholism is so widely accepted, and dare I say....encouraged, but smoking a little weed is a sign of a defective and evil person.

[RFDMedic3D]

I don't claim to be an expert, nor have I read all of the posts here so far, but I can pull from my 25+ years of experience and give MY OPINION on this subject. While I see alcohol use widely accepted and on the increase, I am also aware of some providers that do smoke weed occasionally. I would like to say, however, those that I know who smoke weed would do it even if they didn't work prehospital EMS. This just gives them a convienent excuse. I also think that "burn out" is used by many to explain their substance abuse. I personally work a moderately high volume ALS squad in an urban setting, and while I'll admit that I look at life from a distortedly dark point of view, that many in this field share, I do not drink, or do illegal drugs. I do take antidepressants, more to spare my family from the backlash of my psyche dealing with the things I witness. I however do not have trouble sleeping.

Substance abuse for any reason, or due to any cause, has it's complications and will take it's toll eventually. I am becoming aware of an increase in emergency responders being prosecuted for DUI. Law enforcement agencies seem to be putting a halt to the old practice of giving "professional courtesy."

Again, this is me and my opinions.

[tom5706]

we here in my area, the biggest potential problem with the EMS and FF jobs would be alcohol. After 1+ years with this fire company and ambu squad, I have yet to see any volly appear to a tone in anything other than a sober condition. If they have been drinking, they dont show up. They know the penalties for showing up impaired. There are just to many eyes upon you, be it at the fire ground or at the hospital.

Nuff said?

[Siffaliss]

I agree with helimedic...a little weed, big deal, as long as its not on shift. That said, if you are smoking weed, you have to realize that your jeapordizing your career and live with the consequences if they roll around. Many of the ski patrollers I know use illicit drugs even beyond marijuana, but they do have the good sense to avoid using on the job. It IS indeed funny how alcoholism is so widely accepted, and dare I say....encouraged, but smoking a little weed is a sign of a defective and evil person. <img src="http://www.emtcity.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

I think if those ski patrollers you know actually had any good sense, they wouldn't be using illicit drugs in the first place.

Alcoholism isn't encouraged. Liquor however is a LEGAL substance; that's why its use might be TOLERATED more so than that of the ganja/crack/meth or whatever your snow bunny friends are using.

When it comes to showing up for work while under the influence of ANYTHING, there is and should be a zero toleranace everywhere. It is not only your partner's life and medical license on the line, it is yours. Most of us I would assume wouldn't drink anything if we got less than 8 hours of rest prior to the start of our next shift. That is standard around here, some places might even observe a longer period of "dryness" before starting work. And most of us wouldn't be dumb enough to actually show up for work still reeking like the night before.

Worst case scenario: Your partner shows up for their shift with you, they're hungover++++/unrested from snorting coke/hazy from smoking weed half the night. You see this and don't say anything because it's your partner and you don't want to "upset the balance". They're driving with you and let's say a term pregnant women in the back. You're near the hospital and your partner has an accident and crashes the truck. Somehow they manage to walk away, yet mom loses the baby and mmmmmm let's say bleeds out, the car your partner hit contained an elderly couple and kills one of them, the other is permanently brain damaged and has "no life" for the rest of their life. You're in traction in hospital with several pins in your femur, looking oh so forward to months of physio and bills building up because you can't work. Sorry kids, no clothes/school supplies/haircuts/proper food for you because mommy/daddy can't move their legs right now; make your own KD for breakfast. No money for anything again this month because the comp claim was AGAIN denied.

Yes I made that up but who's to say it couldn't happen? We all know lives can and do change in the blink of an eye. Could you live with yourself knowing you could have prevented this? Sure, your partner is a retard for showing up for work in that condition. If you knew, could have done something beforehand but didn't, wouldn't you also have to share the blame?

Edited September 4, 2009 by Siffaliss

[joesph]

It still surprises me that with what we see any of us could abuse drugs or alcohol. How many times have we seen the results of these bad decisions and yet we wade in blindly none the less. There is to many things to enjoy in this world to cloud any of it.