substance abuse in ems

[funkytomtom]

The point that you have to accept the risks of using marijuana is a good one. The original ski-patrollers that use that I mentioned don't really look at ems as a career path. I believe anybody that IS looking into ems for the long term and uses would be either very comfortable rolling the dice, or very foolish. Anyways...I think my points have been made...

Edited September 24, 2009 by funkytomtom

[kevbutnobacon]

I'll tell you this much - you ever show up to my station drunk, stoned, or otherwise impaired, I'll send you home and if there isn't a legal reason for it you'll be without a job. Period, end of story. Yes, we drug test. Without notice. You're positive, you're gone. No working on pain meds - if you're on 'em for a legit reason, you're temp reassigned. We have a good safety record for a reason. I don't want to work with an impaired partner. That's my life and my patient's life at risk. I think you are asking for trouble by 1 admitting on a public forum that you use weed (it's not that hard to find out someone's identity, especially if someone in your area gets on here to see it) and 2 working at any point after using it. That's nothing but stupidity and irresponsible. If you want to do drugs of any sort, please do us all a favor and get off the stuff or find a new profession !

Hey man take a chill pill !

The use of hard drugs is positively encouraged here in good old England.

All Emergency workers are issued amphetemines by management at the start of all shifts.

They lead to hightened awareness and acute sensitivity. They also assist us to drive faster and ignore the danger, and to keep us awake during the wee small hours.

If we need to chill out after a particularly harrowing night we are offered a wide range of recreational drugs, ie LSD, STP, Dope,etc to assist us to unwind.

In all my long years I have never seen any ill effects to the mental wellbeing of staff due to this of this liberal and benign practice.

I feel you Americans should loosen up and adopt the forward thinking practices that we enjoy.

[spenac]

Hey man take a chill pill !

The use of hard drugs is positively encouraged here in good old England.

All Emergency workers are issued amphetemines by management at the start of all shifts.

They lead to hightened awareness and acute sensitivity. They also assist us to drive faster and ignore the danger, and to keep us awake during the wee small hours.

If we need to chill out after a particularly harrowing night we are offered a wide range of recreational drugs, ie LSD, STP, Dope,etc to assist us to unwind.

In all my long years I have never seen any ill effects to the mental wellbeing of staff due to this of this liberal and benign practice.

I feel you Americans should loosen up and adopt the forward thinking practices that we enjoy.

Bad attempt at a funny dude.

[Siffaliss]

I agree meth-heads aren't the only idiots out there. I think where we fundamentally disagree is when you say even a little bit is too much. A little bit of weed is much much safer than drinking in my opinion. The drunk dude is swerving all over the road and running reds, while the stoned guy is still waiting for the stop sign to turn green. I'm not saying it's ok in all circumstances, including driving or on the job, but you have yet to convince me that it is wrong at all times and every time. There are A LOT of working professionals who use marijuana in a safe and confidential manner, and whose work does not suffer for it. Again, certain idiots are not confidential or safe with it, and I would not want to work with any of these "dude, bro these tones going off is harshing my mellow, leme hit the bong one more time" types.

Someone driving after smoking a joint is impaired. It's wrong in so many ways, it's not even funny. Reaction time is still slower. I suppose it would be ok for some guy to hit the bong a few times before going to work operating heavy machinery, however he has to drive through a school zone where your kids are crossing the street to go home. But that's ok! Because a little weed is safer than drinking ...

[funkytomtom]

Someone driving after smoking a joint is impaired. It's wrong in so many ways, it's not even funny. Reaction time is still slower. I suppose it would be ok for some guy to hit the bong a few times before going to work operating heavy machinery, however he has to drive through a school zone where your kids are crossing the street to go home. But that's ok! Because a little weed is safer than drinking ...

I will admit my example was bad. It makes it seem like I condone drugged driving, but if you read down a little farther, I clearly state I do not. I DO think that a stoned driver is safer than a drunk one, but I NEVER said it was ok. Please refrain from putting words in my mouth.

[tniuqs]

Well seeing as we are all getting a bit touchy with responses as of late therefore for your pleasure and enjoyment ... I present the legal drugs that are used in dang neat every industry on a daily basis, an no they don't affect me "attitude" that is more than prevalent even amongst EMS ... hell I have worked with different "cultures of workers" that rattle when they walk !

The sedating

1- Gravol or Dimenhydrinate

2- Benadryl or Dramamine ie Diphenhyramine

3- the OTC antihistamines (umm tons)

The anxiety producing:

1- The plethora of OTC cold remedies Decongestants) that are derived from Pseudoephedrine and best of all the nasal spray Dristan .. OMG now there is an addictive substance that the FDA or CDA kinda forgot about.

Ginseng and all the other "herbal" non regulated drugs.

Question: Does your mass spec in your ER (slapping knee noises heard) even capable of assessing these drugs?

On to the Powerhouse or Red Bull drinks ...I watched a worker pound back 6 in a 12 hour night shift and he was acting like he was on roids (with the rage attitude included) whose to say he was not impaired ?

Then for my Canadian counter-parts and AK drinking that "bloody rocket fuel in Afhgan Land" the double double aka known as Timmy's ... wtf do they put in that poison anyways ?

Just for giggle's throw one beer into that mix of cold remedies because here .04 and one can actually go to work legally

Ok NOW pass the Bong ... ps thats a joke btw ! and it takes (thc catabolites) about 2 weeks to be non detectable urine dip test in the "infreqient user" and up to 30 days in the chronic user to clear (ie THC is fat soluble unlike the others)The question remains is what level is THC before one is impaired hmm ? ... I digress but THC sure gets a bad rep as a result, and been proven to be useful in many patients ie CP, stuttering, CA patients post chemo, some seizures disorders .... and no I am not a member of grow op.

Some questions I field from numerous groups and almost DAILY because I carry TNT diagnostic DOA (drugs of abuse) urine testing quite amazing how many jumpy workers prefer to have that sore tooth looked in town when I confront them in Industrial settings and moreover to help them as opposed to run them down the road, I love this escape clause (sorry off topic)but more than one way to skin a cat.

Point being best take good look at the big picture before pointing fingers as we KNOW that the most Prevalent Drug in society is ETOH and as a group we should really focus on steming that tide first as EMS providers cause we see the results of it every day .... IMHO.

cheers

[fireflymedic]

Hey man take a chill pill !

The use of hard drugs is positively encouraged here in good old England.

All Emergency workers are issued amphetemines by management at the start of all shifts.

They lead to hightened awareness and acute sensitivity. They also assist us to drive faster and ignore the danger, and to keep us awake during the wee small hours.

If we need to chill out after a particularly harrowing night we are offered a wide range of recreational drugs, ie LSD, STP, Dope,etc to assist us to unwind.

In all my long years I have never seen any ill effects to the mental wellbeing of staff due to this of this liberal and benign practice.

I feel you Americans should loosen up and adopt the forward thinking practices that we enjoy.

Okay, not only as said from spenac a very poor attempt to be funny (wow spenac actually agreed with me on something - I'll have to take note of that) but also those comments showed your ignorance and lack of recognition that substance abuse in EMS is not only a common but significantly growing problem. I have been on both sides of the fence and worked within the EMS world where part of my duty was to test for drugs for potential hires for an outside company to working with a partner that lost his license due to drug use to attempting to fire someone who had a significant problem (and refused to pursue treatment which was offered to him as a condition of maintained employment) and was arrested driving an ambulance under the influence of drugs and shown getting arrested on CNN in uniform (yeah it WAS that bad). I wasn't allowed to fire him for refusing treatment as he was a boss's pet and I quit that day - he was arrested two days later. I rarely mention the company's name, but those in my area know who I'm referring to. All you have to do is look on the disciplinary action board and see a multitude of listings for people that have lost their license due to drug use and caught either using "waste" drugs or abuse of prescription drugs. Our state offers the option of if you go to your employer and disclose you have a problem will they arrange treatment, but also the state doesn't hold it against you. If you are caught, then there is almost a 100% chance your career in EMS is done.

Oh and to the comment that private services dont check - with the exception of the private service discussed above - every employer I've worked for not only tested but did so frequently (roughly about every 3-6 months) and was completely random. Too bad more don't do so.

Please be safe and smart people. You've worked too hard for this to lose it to stupidity.

[Siffaliss]

I will admit my example was bad. It makes it seem like I condone drugged driving, but if you read down a little farther, I clearly state I do not. I DO think that a stoned driver is safer than a drunk one, but I NEVER said it was ok. Please refrain from putting words in my mouth.

I'm certainly glad you're not in my area then, Tom. There is nothing "safe" about an impaired driver, no matter what they're on be it ETOH, your little friend marijuana, exhaustion or anything else that will impair concentration ability. Unfortunately it's not realistic to take all these "safer" stoned drivers and stick them all on your street. Otherwise I'm sure thousands of communities would be more than happy to donate those lowlifes to your neighborhood.

Please be safe and smart people. You've worked too hard for this to lose it to stupidity.

Well said ...

Edited October 1, 2009 by Siffaliss