Fight over ambulance leads to fight in Atlantic City....

[rogue medic]

If police are telling you to not transport, there is not much that you can do.

If you insist and they arrest you, then nobody is transported until later on.

Distractions can certainly contribute to a bad assessment. Many people are not good at assessing children.

What actually happened? I don't know.

I have never been present at a scene described by the news media, where the reporting was completely accurate. The politics of this became more important than the reality, whatever that was.

The people I know from Hatzolah would not let the race of a patient interfere with patient care.

The child is still dead, the animosities are greater because of the instigators.

[Flasurfbum]

I have still to ascertain exactly what happened, but the AC EMS crew is at least half way competant. I have no doubt that they would have split the crew, and used the Engine that would have been responded for the MVC.

There is no doubt in my mind that they would have ignored either patient. What I do suspect is that the underlying racial tensions, which have been boiling in this city for quite some time, have begun to boil over.

And I hate to bring race, sex, or religion into ANY discussion, but there is a somewhat angry, undereducated segment of the population that is looking for an excuse to start trouble. They had Al "Who can I accuse of racism today" Sharpton in the city earlier this year to support a malfeasant "Firefighter" who has been disciplined multiple times for infractions ,and accused a Capt. of making racial comments/remarks, which were never proven.

The way things are going, there will be a large event this summer....its just a matter of what triggers it.

[DwayneEMTP]

I have still to ascertain exactly what happened, but the AC EMS crew is at least half way competant. I have no doubt that they would have split the crew, and used the Engine that would have been responded for the MVC.

There is no doubt in my mind that they would have ignored either patient. What I do suspect is that the underlying racial tensions, which have been boiling in this city for quite some time, have begun to boil over.

And I hate to bring race, sex, or religion into ANY discussion, but there is a somewhat angry, undereducated segment of the population that is looking for an excuse to start trouble. They had Al "Who can I accuse of racism today" Sharpton in the city earlier this year to support a malfeasant "Firefighter" who has been disciplined multiple times for infractions ,and accused a Capt. of making racial comments/remarks, which were never proven.

The way things are going, there will be a large event this summer....its just a matter of what triggers it.

No shame in bringing race, sex or religion into it as long as you've thought it through and it proves to be relevant.

Like the "hit a woman" and "rape" threads...there are many biases, prejudices, stereotypes, misunderstanding, and a truck load of ignorance on these subjects.

(EDIT: My purpose with the above sentence was to imply that I thought those were also good, though risky, dialogs, not that I thought that those that posted in them fell into the above categories.)

If we avoid the dialog then hate and ignorance win the day. Open communication is currently being smothered by unspoken rules, and we should all find that unacceptable.

Good for you for having the gnads to open that politically incorrect, and somewhat Pandora(ish) looking, door.

My apologies for jumping in when I really have nothing contextually relevant to add to the thread...

Dwayne

[scratrat]

Dwayne;

Most of the Car vs Ped MVCs are complete and utter BS. :twisted:

You obviously haven't met Mr. Banks.

Although I think he's dead now??

I think he's somehow survived at least two Jitney crashes....

[MedicEllis]

I will throw my two cents out the window here.

I think we tend to over think situations in EMS. As Medics and EMTs we are recipients of alot of information that we are to use in any numerous situations, and as recipients of this wonderful information we want to use it on ever single call, when there is usually a simple answer bitting us in our well intentioned buttocks.

As the provider in charge why would you let uninvolved bystanders get involved and start debating anything? That is insane to think anyone (EMT or Medic) to allow this to happen. 1st and foremost you have to control the scene you are on, if you cant then you need to call someone who can, which ends up being law enforcement 95% of the time, to help with control.

There is a simple answer here, you split resources and deal with the situation at hand. One person (with which I assume have trained FF on scene assisting) package/backboard the pt that was struck by the vehicle and send your partner over to assess/Tx the pediatric patient. Very simple, most probably the pediatric doesn't need to be transport and needs some wound/bleeding control and some PFA to the parents. Once that is accomplished if the parents still want transport then, it is very simple to have the parents sit in the jump seat, ped pt on the bench seat and pedestrian on the cot, with full immobilization.

We don't live in a controlled environment and certainly need to make decisions on what is best for the pt/pt's. If you life by this golden rule you will never loss any sleep and most important you will be able to defend yourself against boss's galore as well as those lawyers who want to complain about malpractice.

peace

[DwayneEMTP]

Holy crap.

That is the best post by a new member...possibly ever. An if it turns out to be right that is really going to tick me off! :wink:

Great post. It makes perfect, simple sense to me.

Dwayne

[R1_medic]

I look at this from a logical point of view. Triage both patients, find the higher priority, if you have a medic then the medic treats that one. If not then flip a coin, but either way if you have a second unit comming, or feel comfy with taking both, then just do it. Also it wouldnt be the first time that I kicked bystanders off scene. mag lites are very intimidating. LOL

[spenac]

If police are telling you to not transport, there is not much that you can do.

Actually you get on the radio channel that everyone can hear and clearly state officer so and so is refusing to allow me to take care of a patient. It's amazing how quickly officers change their tone. You misunderstood. Do what you need. ETC, ETC.

[rogue medic]

When the police have kept me from patients, I have been far enough away that I couldn't really tell what the condition of the patient was.

I never tried announcing an individual name on the radio, but the orders came down form the highest ranking LEO on scene and that person was not talking to me. Announcing that police were not allowing access to the patient produced a response of "OK, you are available."

[Richard B the EMT]

Actually you get on the radio channel that everyone can hear and clearly state officer so and so is refusing to allow me to take care of a patient. It's amazing how quickly officers change their tone.

I will be presumptuous that the AC EMS has a voice recorder on their radio system, as does, in fact, the FDNY EMS, and possibly the majority of municipal EMS represented by members of EMT City.

In the Crown Heights case that I referred to earlier, Hatsoloh doesn't have such recording system in place.

However, if a LEO wants you to do something against your protocols, rules, regulations, or laws, or even if you just feel a bit "hinkey" about it, the radio voice recorder record, for CYA purposes, always seems like a good idea.