My certification is on the line!

[xaby]

Hi there!

I just registered for this board a few minutes ago, so if I am breaking any rules with this post, I apologize in advance.

I just graduated from high school a few days ago. This year, I was part of a double-period EMT-Basic course. It is an elective course where you can receive high school credit. However, if you meet the age requirement, you are also a candidate for EMT-B certification. My instructor is a paramedic who has been with New York State EMS for 30 years (more or less) and is supposed to be well known in this field.

Being a candidate for certification, I did all that is required for the New York State EMT-B certification.

-I took this course

-I did the required number of on the job hours

-I got the CPR certification

-I got the AED certification

-I got the WMD certification

However, about two weeks ago, I had to take the skills exam, given by my instructor. I passed all of the stations up to trauma and medical left. During the trauma assessment, I had to check the patient’s circulation. My instructor asked me where are the three places to find a pulse (excluding anything on the neck since the patient has a collar on). I go for the radial, then brachial. I was a bit confused with the next place to find a pulse. He hinted to where it was. I then went to the femoral artery. Now, he asked me what the pulse rate on the trauma patient’s femoral artery would be. I honestly did not know what it was. He told me that if I don’t answer and get it correctly, that he’d fail me right there. I took a wild guess and didn’t get it right.

I was hoping for some sort of retest. I contacted and met with someone in charge of the administration of this course and told him my situation. However, as it turns out, I cannot take a retest since my instructor never registered me with the state in the first place for ever even taking this course—the only people that were registered were the ones who had passed the skills exam! This makes it very hard to prove to anyone that I had taken an EMT course. Additionally, my instructor was –extremely- unwilling to give me a retest. I told him that I can make arrangements to take a retest in school, since I personally know the school’s principal. No such luck.

I loved the EMT class—I don’t want my education to go to waste! I fear that I do not have many options left . My family is not in the sort of situation to pay for another EMT course. I don’t think it is necessary for me to go through all of that all over again for not knowing one small part of the trauma assessment.

So…perhaps anyone here may have some advice or a solution to my situation? Thank you!

[BEorP]

Welcome to the forums! Sorry that I can't help you with your EMT-B cert stuff (I'm up in the Great White North and don't know much about your state's system).

I do have one question for you just out of curiosity, you said:

During the trauma assessment, I had to check the patient's circulation. My instructor asked me where are the three places to find a pulse (excluding anything on the neck since the patient has a collar on).

Are your collars not open around the front of the neck enough to check carotid pulse?

[emt_hound]

Isn't the course listed on your high school transcript since you took it for credit?

Not much, but its a start...

[xaby]

I'm not sure about checking the carotid pulse. We were told not to if the patient has a collar.

Yes, the course is listed on my high school transcript. However, that is only in the sense of it being a high school elective course--not an EMT-B certification course. I don't know to what extent I can take that piece of evidence, though.

[Ridryder 911]

Welcome to the forum.

I would contact your administration, of the school. If you do not receive an appropriate answer, I would then contact the EMS Licensing/certification bureau of your state for investigation. Sounds like he is trying the "old I pass only those that pass the cert's" game to keep his pass percentage high. Be sure to leave a paper trail, with whom, when & what was said.

Best of Luck,

Ridryder 911

[Richard B the EMT]

As, in New York State, you have to be 18 to take the state written test, had you achieved that age? I've heard of people who couldn't take the test because they were one day shy, and others who took it on the day of their 18th birthday, at a different training center than where they had taken the classes, due to scheduling, by a pre-arranged agreement by both of the class Instructor/Coordinators.

I do agree, maintain a paper trail, of who you spoke to, and when you spoke to them (I'd go with day, date, and time), even if in person or the telephone. Don't forget to include the paper of snail-mails, and printouts of e-mails.

Side mention: I only know of one under 18 person to become a NYS EMT. By the time the state DoH investigated her, she WAS 18. That was in 1974-1975, by the way.

[xaby]

Yes, I meet the age requirement.

I contacted various places today. The Bureau of EMS Central Office, The NYS Department of Health, and the Regional EMS Council of NYC.

Most of the faculty wasn't there or was on vacation. However, I spoke with someone at the DOH who told me to write a formal complaint and that they will do an investigation of the situation. Hopefully, things will work out.

And yes! That thought did cross my mind--perhaps he does not want so many people taking this exam in order to keep his pass percentage high. All year long, he said, "I don't care if I even get only one person to the test, since if they pass, that's a 100% passage rate." I don't know... :?

Thanks again for all of the advice!

[buddha]

Actually, in NY, a student needs only to turn 18 by the last day of the month in which he/she sits for the written exam. You could take the exam at age 17, if you will turn 18 by the end of the month.

Secondly, NYSDOH requires that course memorandums (rosters) of students enrolled in the class be received by the DOH at least 6 weeks prior to the written exam. This allows time for the state to order the exam and to forward tickets to the I/C ( and to assure compliance with state regs). You should have completed an application for EMS certification at the beginning of your class.

As for the practical exam, students may fail up to two stations the day of the practical, and the Practical Exam Coordinator must allow any student who fails a station to make 1 attempt to retest that day. You could fail the trauma assess and the medical assess, and retest each on the same day. If you fail the retest, you must make arrangements to retest one more time (after remediation). Students who fail the second retest must then sit through a refresher class before taking the exam again. Practical exam procedures are also clearly laid out by NYSDOH, and the exam is meant to be a black and white test. Evaluators cannot freelance and fail you for items that are not specifically listed on the practical exam evaluation sheet. They are not supposed to ask questions. Evaluators are supposed to give the scenario and answer questions the candidate may have, then remain silent and evaluate the patient.

All of this information is available on the NYSDOH website under "Information for Providers". Sounds like many things were not done appropriately in your class. Stick to your guns, and file the complaint. When you contact the state office, ask for Karen Meggenhoffen.

If you need any further advice or help, PM me. I'm a NYS Certified Instructor Coordinator also.

[xaby]

Wow. Thanks for all of the info, buddha!

I was a bit concerned when he freelanced around for the exam. I definitely felt ready and prepared for it, but I seriously did not expect him to throw all of those questions about pulse at me.

I'll let you guys know how it all goes.

[Raistlin]

Hey, I'd like to voice now, here at this message board, that I am in the same situation as Xaby. In fact, we were in the same class with the same teacher. I knew those physical skills exam down to each step, memorized. HOwever, our CIC asked questions outside of the test.

He asked me what the pt had and I named some possible diagnoses. He said I was wrong on all of them and he got me nervous, and then just dismissed me. This followed 3 prior incidents during the test to his "count-downs" to failure, counting to 10 until I got the right answer. He was very unprofessional about the test, as well durign the whole year. His arrogance is unrivaled by any teacher of professional I've ever met or had been taught by. His past students told me he had done a poor teaching job this year.

Furthermore, I had passed 4 of the stations already, like xaby. We both approached him to ask for a retest, as he did not offer it, and he said there was no time and room in the school. I let him know that I personally knew the principal and he would grant time and location. He refused, told me I didnt exist in the EMT database anyway, said I "did not understand these things" and walked away.

I got in touch with the program sponsor and he let me know that this CIC did not register students who didnt pass the physical skills exam, which he should have done at the beginning of the year, like all CICs should. The program sponsor let me know he couldnt do anything because course we took was categorized an elective in our high school, and the teacher holds sway in how he runs course.

This was done in conjunction with a health professional training facility across the street. Wasn't the CIC required to register us for taking the class with the DOH? My high school transcript says I took it, but thats not enough. I cant do anything now because he didn't put me in the EMT database. Theres no retest for me, although I deserve one. I was number 4 in my class and I did very well in it. I received a 90 in it, and a 99 average in the last third of the term. This is the only thing I ever failed in that class, and the he did not give me a moment's consideration. I can't even go to someone else and get my certification without taking the course all over again. This is utterly and truly unfair. Isn't there any justice in this system? Someone please help us. We were planning to do volunteer work, not even make money. We are very serious about our certification, but this CIC's inconsiderate and indifferent temperament, as well as his unprofessional manner, have left us nearly hopeless. I apologize for the melodrama, but Xaby and I would really appreciate some help and/or advice. We thank those who have replied so far, and those who have any advice on this situation.