LOL @ Pueblo, CO AMR/Fire Response WHY??????????????

[Flasurfbum]

Oh please... :roll: Lets see how fire would react if the EMS agency staffed a heavy rescue or engine, just to "help". It is your international unions mission to take over EMS, not because its the best way to deliver health care, but because its the best way to protect fire jobs and funding, plain and simple.

Apples and oranges. Un-wad your knickers and think straight.

If Fire staffing were cut in favor of EMS funding, then insurance rates would go through the roof.

For the most part, Fire is not overwhelmed with calls. They are the ones providing assistance to EMS.

[Flasurfbum]

It seems to be the consensus to gang up, and hate on Fire. That is not the solution.

How about we look at the real root of the problems.

The MUTTS that abuse EMS heavily, the nursing homes that call at 0darkthirty for "abnormal lab values", and insist the pt be transported, despite the pts. pleas to the contrary. The calls for a ride to the hospital.

Educate the citizens, SNFs, and homeless population about calling 911 for emergencies.

And enact tougher legislation about the abuse of the system. You show up for a chest pain call, and the pt. is standing at the doorway with bags packed, and ready for a ride, he gets a civil summons. Next time, misdemenor jail time. And no ambulance ride.

For too long we have just accepted these BS calls as a part of the job.

I think it is time we took a cue from FD, who has taken leaps and bounds to eliminate malicious false alarms, and aggressivly enforce alarm maintence.

[spenac]

Apples and oranges. Un-wad your knickers and think straight.

If Fire staffing were cut in favor of EMS funding, then insurance rates would go through the roof.

For the most part, Fire is not overwhelmed with calls. They are the ones providing assistance to EMS.

Your insurance skyrocketing claims hold no water. My insurance with limited fire protection in the area is only slightly higher per year than friends of mine that live in one of the best rated communitys. You could cut fire by a large amount and still have good coverage while improving the number of healthcare providers spread out in the community, which would do more good on a regular basis. Fire and EMS are to completely different professions. I have been both and clearly see they are not related at all. We still need fire but not at the levels currently staffed. Downsize fire, up size EMS and everyone benefits.

[spenac]

For too long we have just accepted these BS calls as a part of the job.

I think it is time we took a cue from FD, who has taken leaps and bounds to eliminate malicious false alarms, and aggressivly enforce alarm maintence.

I agree. We definitely need to aggressively pursue abusers, but more importantly we need to be able to deny transport to callers that can safely go by other means.

[jsadin]

ITS NEVER A WASTE OF RESOURCES IF WE'RE RESPONDING TO YOUR HOUSE !!!!!

Oh, that old chestnut. :roll:

FYI, I have no problem working with fire. I have a problem with fire forcing EMS on their dept members and producing sub-par providers who view working on the ambulance as a necessary evil.

[Eydawn]

So what do you do when the Samsonite positive turns out to actually be having a massive MI and dies in the holding tank while the cop is writing up his civil summons?

Guess what... medic crew is fried.

I'm not saying that hating fire is the way to fix the EMS system. I'm saying that fire based EMS in many areas is not a happy system. People fight over medical control because it means contract money. Fire systems force employees to get their paramedic's license, which means you have a lot of paramedics with no desire to actually be paramedics in the field (a.k.a medic mill produce), who have no capacity to transport in many cases... yet there are still arguments over who has scene control; the transporting agency, or the fire department.

I'm all for having Fire on scene to help me lift the land whale, or to cut my patient out of the tin can formerly known as a geo... but having them redundantly respond every time the tones drop, (especially responding hot) puts the fire folks themselves in danger as well as the general public. If fire wants to come help with medical calls, they should be waiting for EMS to request them- on standby, aware of the call, waiting in the station. Or responding cold if they know they'll be needed soon.

I will not argue that we need fire personnel in large quantities to be ready for fire suppression at a moment's notice. Fires can escalate quickly and sometimes, need way more resources than people would expect. But I will argue that the public is best served by those who specialize in paramedicine by choice, rather than those who become jack-of-all trades through force.

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[VentMedic]

Your insurance skyrocketing claims hold no water. My insurance with limited fire protection in the area is only slightly higher per year than friends of mine that live in one of the best rated communitys. You could cut fire by a large amount and still have good coverage while improving the number of healthcare providers spread out in the community, which would do more good on a regular basis. Fire and EMS are to completely different professions. I have been both and clearly see they are not related at all. We still need fire but not at the levels currently staffed. Downsize fire, up size EMS and everyone benefits.

I believe Flasurfbum is from Florida (same 2 addresses as a past member who hasn't be around lately).

The "insurance skyrocketing" was a scare tactic the FDs used during the Florida Tax Reform vote last year. Fortunately, the majority of intelligent life in Florida did the math. I do get a better rating on my insurance since I have a fire hydrant within 300 feet of my property. The policy doesn't mention a fire truck.

There was other math done by the citizens of Florida and now we are starting to get more people questioning their city and county leaders why we need 4 vehicles for every medical call. However, it will probably be the fuel prices that bring change before support for non-fire EMS services.

Florida has a large retired population. I can not imagine the repercussions that would result if the Fire Rescue was to decide who was worthy of transport or not. Most of these people have already felt discrimination at sometime in their long lives.

Yes, there is abuse, but I've also seen that go both ways by lazy EMTs and Paramedics who don't want to assess the patient or even be bothered by something that doesn't look like the exciting career their Medic Mill promised.

While many FDs want the new guys to be paramedics, they also assure them that they can be rotated to a nice engine in the suburbs rather quickly once they've served their time on the med truck. Now that fosters loyalty for the paramedic profession.

[p3medic]

Apples and oranges. Un-wad your knickers and think straight.

If Fire staffing were cut in favor of EMS funding, then insurance rates would go through the roof.

For the most part, Fire is not overwhelmed with calls. They are the ones providing assistance to EMS.

Hey kid, its not apples and oranges. If fire wants to duplicate my job, why wouldn't it be ok for us to duplicate theirs?

Don't give me that insurance crap, were talking about delivering health care to patients. The IAFF teaches departments how to go about taking over EMS in their respective areas, its a priority mission of the UNION! It has nothing to do what what is best for the public, its whats best for firefighters jobs and budgets.

The fact is, medical emergencies are on the rise, as fires are on the decline. More funding and personell are needed for EMS, not fire. Perhaps EMS agencies should consider "merging" fire departments into them, instead of the other way around. They wouldn't get paid the same as the EMS professional, and wouldn't get the same benefits or retirement, but we'd treat them ok, promise. :wink:

[VentMedic]

This is today's news update for Florida EMS. I thought it would be amusing since it has to do with training. It has now been clarified that an ALS engine is not an ambulance.

http://ww7.doh.state.fl.us/mailman/listinfo/flemscomm

Bureau of Emergency Medical Services Updates

Friday, May 30, 2008 10:12 AM

A Weekly Snapshot of Bureau Information and EMS Resources

Department of Health Mission: Promote, protect and improve the health of all people in Florida

Florida EMS Top News Items

1. Paramedic Field Internship on ALS Engines

2. EMSTARS Live Date Information for Charter Agencies

1. Paramedic Field Internship on ALS Engines

As a response to several inquiries made by educators regarding Paramedic field internship on ALS engines please refer to the following information:

Section 401.2701(B)2,. Florida Statute requires the field internship experience be aboard advanced life support permitted ambulance.

The statute states:

2. Paramedic programs must be available only to Florida-certified emergency medical technicians or an emergency medical technician applicant who will obtain Florida certification prior to completion of phase one of the paramedic program. Paramedic programs must be a minimum of 700 hours of didactic and skills practice components, with the skills laboratory student-to-instructor ratio not exceeding six to one. Paramedic programs must provide a field internship experience aboard an advanced life support permitted ambulance.

Section 401.23 Definitions:

(5) "Ambulance" or "emergency medical services vehicle" means any privately or publicly owned land or water vehicle that is designed, constructed, reconstructed, maintained, equipped, or operated for, and is used for, or intended to be used for, land or water transportation of sick or injured persons requiring or likely to require medical attention during transport.

[Mateo_1387]

I can give you another reason why the fire department should not have to answer a medical call. When the fire department goes out on a call, who do they call for back up, they call another fire station. Lets see, when a police officer needs assistance, does he call the ambulance to wrastle some guy down, no, he calls another patrol car to assist him. When an ambulance calls for assistance, they call an ambul......oh, oh, oops....they call a fire truck. What sense does that make!?!?!?!? They should be calling another ambulance. That way they can get double the personnel and double the paramedics on scene to help an ill patient.