LOL @ Pueblo, CO AMR/Fire Response WHY??????????????

[Eydawn]

Are you just citing numbers from Denver Health Paramedics? If so, you're forgetting West Metro, Rural Metro, Northglenn Ambulance, Action Care, Capitol City, AMR....

Most of them don't run primary response until the system goes on overload (in Denver proper) but that happens quite frequently.

Not saying that Denver's EMS isn't broken (it is) but DH is not the only one operating in Denver at both the 911 and BLS transfer levels.

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[Doug]

I just wanted to commend the comment made above "Cops call cops for backup, Fire calls fire...etc" Excellent point.

If I may, I got into a discussion with a FF here locally about why fire responds to EMS. His point was that while our service has 1 (and a half) stations they have 6 and can be onscene quicker. I thought about this for a second and said "So, you would support my efforts to make the PD EMT's and or Medics, I mean when a call comes in there is a delay as it gets dispatched and then there is your out of the door time etc. They are already on the street and can being given the address over the radio. Just think, people actually pull over for PD, the crusiers go faster and use less fuel, and if they crash there would be much less damage." I left out the fact that PD actually has a fitness requirement. Funny how this idea didn't take off.

[triemal04]

Aren't there more vehicles than needed in reality though?

Do they not put more on because they have to assume that some of them will be out on EMS calls and not available to respond to a fire call?

To some extent yes. It'll vary a lot from department to department though, and more often than not, even if they stopped running on EMS calls, closing down lots of units would cause problems down the road. Hell, take the example of Denver that Amhet put out; if they've got 44 units covering 150 square miles that means that each unit is covering roughly 3.5 square miles. So each should be able to get to anywhere in that first due district in under 5 minutes. Is that good? Sure. Does that mean that there isn't any waste to be cut from the budget? Probably not, but looking at the actual numbers it isn't as bad as he makes it out to be. Now, does that mean that more ambulances shouldn't be put on the road? Hell no. 9 minutes to get to a given address is to long far as I'm concerned. But, if more ambulances are needed, then where is that money going to come from? Has to come out of someone's budget, and nobody will want that to happen. Hence why the stopgap of engines responding comes in.

Fire and EMS are two different things; they've been grouped together for so long that way to many people (including a hell of a lot here) assume that they are the same, and that the same standards apply. (they don't) Or that they can be an expert of one with no real knowledge of the other and still speak accurately about it.

EMS gets the short straw a lot of times, due largely to the fact that the public is uninformed, and that nobody is able to get together and form any sort of group to advance changes, mostly due to the apathy that most providers seem to have. Seriously, if you want change, the for the love of god, don't bitch about it here, start working on making it happen! Sitting back and blaming Fire everytime is getting to be a cop out; if you want improvements to happen, then get to work.

[Amhet1]

Are you just citing numbers from Denver Health Paramedics? If so, you're forgetting West Metro, Rural Metro, Northglenn Ambulance, Action Care, Capitol City, AMR....

Most of them don't run primary response until the system goes on overload (in Denver proper) but that happens quite frequently.

Not saying that Denver's EMS isn't broken (it is) but DH is not the only one operating in Denver at both the 911 and BLS transfer levels.

Wendy

CO EMT-B

Thank you for your comments Wendy. My thoughts got a little heated as I formulating comments. My attempt was to compare the "government" services. THe privates are definitely needed to support the government service as the government cant support it.

It kinda sucks looking at the issue from 1500 miles away but the internet does help. It also is a great help having someone with some first-hand knowledge! Thanks for your help!

[EMSPROFESSIONAL]

The obvious solution is stop this waste. It benefits no one. It places the public at greater risk. Fire should only respond when need for extrication. All these responses are not good for the environment either. I am sure many areas will start putting an end to the stupidity due to high fuel costs.

[Laura Anne]

I work for two different EMS agencies.

The first one I'm at today, and it's a part time gig with a fire response to back us up. We normally don't get any assistance from the fire company since its the weekend and the volleys are responsible for helping us. Now, I am NOT picking on volleys, just making the point that they never show up unless it's a MVC or some other trauma-drama. Honestly, I don't need them on my scene. If I did, I'd call them, but the response time would be very extended. :? During the week, though, it's two paid trucks that respond to ALL EMS calls along with the MICU. Again, I don't think they're really needed since we normally get there first and end up recalling them.

My second job, being my full time a service doesn't have fire response unless requested. Instead we have 2 float trucks to assist in backing up and taking any overflow calls. I feel from working in both squads that the full time spot is a more appropriate way to handle this type of situation(sa). My two cents.... 8)

[Eric]

ok here i go the fire dept does not make any money on youer run and i bet the volly make nothing when they help you with youer job we are there to help

[spenac]

ok here i go the fire dept does not make any money on youer run and i bet the volly make nothing when they help you with youer job we are there to help

But other than wrecks with extrication than is really no need to waste tax payer money or risk the public safety by having so many emergency responders. You may not charge but either by taxes or donations the tax payers money support you. Responding on all calls is a waste of money. Bad for the environment, bad for the tax payers, unsafe, I could go on and on. If we do not request you do not respond.

[jsadin]

I've said it once and I'll say it again; I love the fire dept guys I work with. They're great and always willing to help when asked. HOWEVER, they are not needed on 99.9% of the calls I run. To send a group of ff's on every EMS call is silly. It puts the ff's at risk by driving a vehicle lights/sirens on public streets, it puts the public at risk for the same reason, it's a waste of fuel, it increases truck wear/tear, it increases patient anxiety by putting more personnel on scene and it pulls fire apparatus away from a strategically placed fire station in the event of a fire thereby increasing response times. Not to mention the fact that most ff's want nothing to do with EMS....

Forgot to say; the fire dept may not make money off the EMS run, but they do benefit by boosting their run numbers. If they respond an engine with EMS for every call, they can honestly say they dispatched fire apparatus to emergency scenes a whole bunch more than if they just claimed real fire responses (box alarms, brush fires, structure fires, etc). They may not get a cut of the insurance billing, but they are most certainly getting something in return.

[Combat Medic]

LOL this is funny. Sounds to me like someone is jelious.