Is there a place for MBAs in EMS management?

[Ridryder 911]

Ironically, I have those that have an MBA's that works under someone that does not. I agree, and have attempting to point out if properly educated one can administer EMS without being a Paramedic. That is as long as they have an good understanding and working relationship with a clinical operations manager, etc. to be able to understand the needs and emphasis of EMS.

I do believe that the lack of education of administration is one of major downfalls as a profession. Again, as described either the "good ole boy" method or promoted within without proper education. The same principle as in education occurs.

R/r 911

[CBEMT]

My boss's boss has practically begged me to get an MBA, probably because she has one ( no medical background though.

From what I've seen of my boss's job, I'd be better off getting an Accounting degree. :shock:

Which, for someone with a math learning disability, is a problem. :?

[Amhet1]

Im going to throw out a shameless plug for someone looking to advance their schooling and still stay within EMS.... There are a couple of BS and at least 1 MS program that I know of online. UofTx has an online BS EMS program. I dont recall if it requires paramedic or not. I have looked at the program at George Washington University which does NOT require a Paramedic certificate.

http://www.gwumc.edu/healthsci/programs/ems_bs/

Mike Ward, Associate Professor and Director of the program has put together an excellent program! Take a look and see if it fits into your educational goals. When applying or getting more information, you will get access to the blackboard system and actually see what you'll be doing in one of the classes. The one major drawback is tuition..... $1600 a class (roughly). Personally, i will be applying to start in the fall of this year =)

The Masters program is in Emergency Management with an emphysis in EMS Management. You can find more at the GWU website also. I could tell you more its already packed =/

[Eydawn]

Headed for Denver? Colorado rocks, I have to say...

Did you ever look at in-state programs here for emergency management? I know I've heard of a few good ones. I'll see what I can dig up.

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[JakeEMTP]

Im going to throw out a shameless plug for someone looking to advance their schooling and still stay within EMS.... There are a couple of BS and at least 1 MS program that I know of online. UofTx has an online BS EMS program. I dont recall if it requires paramedic or not. I have looked at the program at George Washington University which does NOT require a Paramedic certificate.

Since we're tossing out shameless plugs, The University of Western Carolina has an Online Bachelors EMS degree with focus in Health Services Mgmt. or PreMed.

http://emc.wcu.edu/4816.asp

I plan on enrolling in this programme since it requires minimal travel to the Mountains a distinct contrast to the beach where I currently am ( 1 hour ).

[dougd]

It's nice to see some good comments. Has anyone actually worked in EMS under a manager with an MBA? I'm doubtful that the salary would be high enough compared to what they could make in the business world to attract them to EMS.

Keep in mind that the world isn't all roses and sugarplums for MBA's. There's a lot of MBAs out there with no real management experience to speak of who have a very difficult time finding a job. I know of some employers who don't think very highly of an MBA with no experience due to past experiences with young kids fresh out of school who thought they knew everything and ended up doing far more damage than good. (Gee, sound like EMS?) On the other hand, even when the MBA grad is willing to take a lesser position, those are usually not offered either since the potential employer believes, "Why bother? He's not going to stick around here very long anyways."

Also, keep in mind that while money is important it is rarely the only factor that motivates an employee to take or leave a certain job. Don't take my word for it: http://www.joe.org/joe/1998june/rb3.html

[Just Plain Ruff]

Getting an MBA is simply a process of applying to graduate school and completing the courses. You graduate from your MBA program and you have an MBA.

It's no real different than paramedic school that you apply to the medic school and you take the classes and you pass and you are a medic.

If you have no business experience or EMS experience the value that you bring is diminished somewhat. Sure you have the clinical or the exposure to others who have real world business experience but until you get some time doing the job under your belt you are really just a new grad.

Sure there are people with MBA's that have royally mucked up things, as there are medics who have royally mucked up things.

The real test is when you get in the trenches (business world or EMS world) and prove yourself. Hopefully your school provided you enough education to be at least initially successful to not kill patients or not waste the clients or the employer's money. It is up to you to take what you learn and apply it to your situation.

You have to start somewhere.

MBA is not rocket science, paramedicine is not rocket science. I'm not saying a caveman can do it nor am I saying that anyone can do it but you either get it or you don't. Hopefully you have good mentors, good educators, a good support system and your employers understanding that everyone makes mistakes no matter what the level of education. You cannot expect it to be perfect everytime.

[Amhet1]

"Since we're tossing out shameless plugs, The University of Western Carolina has an Online Bachelors EMS degree with focus in Health Services Mgmt. or PreMed. "

Thats excellent! I havent heard about that program, but I was looking specifically for BS EMS programs. Ill have to be sure and take a look at it.

Yea Ms Wendy, We're leaving the sunny beachs of the FL Panhandle and headed for Denver at the end of the month! I was stationed at the AF Academy for 9 years and loved every minute of it! This will be a drastic change for my wife. She has lived her whole life here in the panhandle.

Im really looking forward to getting back to the mountains! The only drawback is I really cant apply for much since I dont have a CO cert yet and I let my NR lapse. As it stands right now, Ill probably look for an admin job til I get certed then see about splitting time between QA and the street. My first choice would be Pridemark, but Denver Health would be OK for a while. I know DH is really suffering right now from manning shortages. Im trying to find more about that, but my initial impression is that they are trying to do too much with too few trucks. They are trying to cover half a million people and 150 sq miles with 22 peak load trucks..... IF they use peak load scheduling....

Anyway, theres a few reasons I like the "Pridemark way" is that the entire system is built on 2 things... patient satisfaction and quality. The other big thing is that they use the suite of Zoll software (The old Pinpoint). The entire program from dispatch/call-taking to billing is completely integrated. Even from the "street level", Pinpoint is obvious. The AVL/GPS saves crews from having to pull out mapbooks, etc to get to the call and monitors feed data directly to the ePCR. The other shamelees plug for Pridemark is that they are a beta center for testing the Pinpoint products.. if youre into that sorta thing =)

Im going to look at the CO schools for an EMS program. Emergency Management isnt a bad idea, but Im looking more specifically for EMS management. EM is more broadbased, and most schools Ive looked at are more directed towards fire management.....

[WendyT]

- Could the pay for an EMS manager even come close to the salary of an MBA who goes into the business world?

- Does anyone have any experience working for managers with MBAs enough to comment on whether formal business training helps?

I could pass this info along to my 24 yr old niece who works for Imperial Oil, who just this last weekend picked her diploma up, her fiance is a CA.

For what she makes, is no where what someone in EMS mangement is making, could I be wrong?

Ruffems says: If you have no business experience or EMS experience the value that you bring is diminished somewhat. Sure you have the clinical or the exposure to others who have real world business experience but until you get some time doing the job under your belt you are really just a new grad.

[BEorP]

Keep in mind that the world isn't all roses and sugarplums for MBA's. There's a lot of MBAs out there with no real management experience to speak of who have a very difficult time finding a job. I know of some employers who don't think very highly of an MBA with no experience due to past experiences with young kids fresh out of school who thought they knew everything and ended up doing far more damage than good. (Gee, sound like EMS?) On the other hand, even when the MBA grad is willing to take a lesser position, those are usually not offered either since the potential employer believes, "Why bother? He's not going to stick around here very long anyways."

Also, keep in mind that while money is important it is rarely the only factor that motivates an employee to take or leave a certain job. Don't take my word for it: http://www.joe.org/joe/1998june/rb3.html

Thanks for this great contribution to the thread.