types of paramedic classes

[Mateo_1387]

So you agree that a degree is simply a piece of paper that proves you have "done your time". I'm glad we see eye to eye on this...

It is more than just time. It is very obvious that you are not a degreed paramedic, or if you are, you did it after the fact. All the classes in a Degree program help the paramedic. Even the english classes help. If you are in EMS, then you know how horrible EMS folk are at grammar and report writing. Classes like Psychology help you to have a better understanding of your patient, especially the psychiatric patient, which many EMS folk lack knowledge of. Anatomy and Physiology is the basis of what we do, I still have not figured out why that is not a requirement for ALL schools.

Every class in a college ends up giving you an advantage. Consider a college education like a lever, it helps to make you a better person at whatever it is you are doing.

You may not see it, but there is a wold of difference between a properly degreed paramedic, and a 9 month medic mill paramedic.

[jsadin]

OMG, where to start? Higher education (all those "useless" classes) help to make you a more rounded person and force you to think outside your myopic little box. Everything you learn, every experience you have helps you to see the world a little differently. English, history, heck even calculus {shudder} are valuable and necessary. Do not simply dismiss higher education as just a "piece of paper".

[Doug]

I have to say, as someone who got their 4 year degree in an unrelated field before becoming a Paramedic, a lot of college courses are timewasters. Sorry it's the truth.

Don't get me wrong, continued education is important, and should be incouraged, but it should be in a related field.

Instead of Psych 101 classes have a course on psych emergencies and how diffuse situations.

Instead of English Lit. how about a simple course in journal or observational writing.

Instead of a Phys. Ed. requirement (believe it or not bowling in my case) how about core strength and confined space rescue.

Instead of Art History or some other humanities course a course in cultural awareness including religion (I know this one will get peoples hackles up, but trust me I responded to a Diff Breather once with a knucklehead partner who failed to see the signs of a Jewish mourning and thought it was a party and actually asked where the birthday boy was...in case you didn't know covered mirrors is a big sign.)

So before I sign on to any call for a degreed program I would like to see the requirements would be.

[VentMedic]

so explain to me why passing english and creative writing classes makes me a better paramedic? I'd rather focus on my paramedic studies, than have to make room for all the other junk that a degree program offers. I am attending college for Emergency Management, only because I want to go higher than field Supervisor, but, I've never had to recite Robert Frost to a pt. in order to revive them. I simply do not see the clinical benefit of a degree. I contend that the only reason to have a degree in Paramedicine (more commonly known as Associates in Science), is to go into management.

Yes, EMS needs more leaders that bash education to ensure the paramedic remains as a 700 hour certificate holder and not recognized as a health care professional.

One just has to read the threads on the forums to see there is need for more education in all areas including English, reading comprehension, writing, math, A&P, Pathophysiology, math and Paramedicine.

Extra college classes which require you to read will make reading and understanding the new EMS laws and statutes easier before one jumps by heresay alone. (Reference to another thread)

Is a firefighter worth more if he has a degree? I think not. Every Firefighter I know of, regardless of degree, still attends the fire academy. Same thing that he/she went through in college to obtain their fire science degree. In fact, in the area that I work, Fire departments prefer their recruits NOT to have degrees in their field, and yet, they are still considered to be professional.

A fire science degree at the very least Associates level and a Bachelors degree in Management or just about anything including Fire Science will get you a big boost up the career ladder in the Fire Service. A firefighter would also be a fool for their own safety as well as co-workers if they did not advance their knowledge about fire fighting by taking additional college fire classes for education and training if available. The basics are taught in the Fire Academy and it is up to the department and/or the individual to expand on that. A combination of both is the most ideal situation for education and training.

Nurses with higher degrees are in high demand for ICU, Flight and education positions. One reason is they usually have better communication skills for both public contact and documentation.

You can usually tell a medic mill paramedic by just trying to read their reports. Even some of the very basic descriptive medical terminology is used incorrectly if used at all.

I don't know if you have noticed but the Paramedic is the only health care worker other than the usual health care support staff (CNA, Phlebotomists, PCTs) that does not require a minimum of a 2 year degree. Do you think they might be on to something that EMS still fails to see?

I have to say, as someone who got their 4 year degree in an unrelated field before becoming a Paramedic, a lot of college courses are timewasters. Sorry it's the truth.

Don't get me wrong, continued education is important, and should be incouraged, but it should be in a related field.

Instead of Psych 101 classes have a course on psych emergencies and how diffuse situations. Instead of English Lit. how about a simple course in journal or observational writing.

Instead of a Phys. Ed. requirement (believe it or not bowling in my case) how about core strength and confined space rescue.

The EMT and Paramedic courses do not have enough of the very basics to understand simple concepts. They look for shortcuts and recipes instead of education. Your example of psych emergencies is a good illustration of that. It implies that you just want a recipe and not an understanding of what type of psysch issue there it. Also, even in some very basic psych courses you will be introduced to the indications and reactions of the many meds out there which a paramedic should definitely be aware of even for giving a simple albuterol nebulizer. If you understood the what the disorder was, you might have an idea what meds the patient might be on and thus, understand the reaction you will get from albuterol.

Once you have taken a whole college class on some subject, you can take a "weekend cert class" for something more specific to your needs. The class will give you an advantage again to some of the "whys" that is missing in the Paramedic's education.

Physical Education? I believe that one can choose what course they take for this requirement. It would be nice if some type of strenghtening course was required so people would not be clueless when entering the work environment that lifting is a requirement for the job. BTW, have you noticed the physical condition of many EMS workers?

When people enter into courses believing they are worthless they may miss valuable informaton that could be beneficial to the job later.

Even some colleges have already dumbed down the courses for an EMS degree which is amusing again in that all the other health care professions still require "college level" reading and comprehension while we don't expect a paramedic to be able to handle such "advanced" courses. Of course, many of the paramedic textbooks have not made it past the 10th grade level so the expectation has already been set.

[firedoc5]

In filling out some reports I found a little experience with creative writing helps.

[Ridryder 911]

"Is a firefighter worth more if he has a degree? I think not. Every Firefighter I know of, regardless of degree, still attends the fire academy. "

while this is correct firefighters with degrees get paid more to start and also get promoted faster in larger departments

"so explain to me why passing English and creative writing classes makes me a better paramedic? I'd rather focus on my paramedic studies, than have to make room for all the other junk that a degree program offers. "

Well those same classes dont help a nurse but having the degree, the piece of paper that says you did your time, Does..

Besides most degree programs i have seen require A&P 1 and 2 which is an incredible help as far as the paramedic curriculum goes. On the same note Paramedicine is a progressive field and requires as much education as possible just to keep with the curve

Two major points have to be understood.

Training does NOT = Education

EMS= Emergency Medical Services= Please note we are medical, NOTHING else.

Hence the part of the problem of EMS. Unfortunately, since we our one of the few medical profession that does not require higher education for an entry level. One reason is because we are closely associated with Fire Services. Unfortunately they too are feeling the wrath that they too are considered a trade instead of a profession. True most employees are hired from the neck down, and even their system enforces and encourage using a paramilitary authority type structure. This is not demeaning but rather the type of structure that works best for them. The command has the knowledge based upon training & experience and guides, commands & is responsible for others.

As well most of those that work in EMS, do not understand the difference between training and education. Again, most Fire Services uses the "training" method. This is definitely different than the educational model that those in medicine use. Performing research, obtaining scientific hypothesis and then deducting from those studies what is the best intervention to perform.

Most of the enforcement of education is not so much of what is just taught, rather on how and where to obtain more information about it. To make a sound judgement based upon multiple factors, some influences not even associated with the focus of the problem. Alike what others described a more rounder and yes educated person. Each step and course is a foundation to make the person more knowledgeable in more than just one area.

We ask physicians to be educated. One would ask why would it be important? It would be very simplistic just to send them to medical school. Look at the advantage of only going four years to a medical school in comparison to eight years.. Then one could argue if one is to be a cardiologist, should they even study any orthopedics? Seriously, should a gynecologist have to understand liver functions?... Doubt, they ever palpate many livers after residency.. Yet, we don't only want them to be fully knowledgeable in their specialty but diverse as well... and even know advanced Mathematics, English, Psychology, History, and other subjects.. Why? Again, education builds a foundation to build upon. Something training does not.

In the real world, one is judged by how much effort placed upon not just physical strength but mental capability. The old saying ... "My ditch digger can never be a Doctor, but my Dr. can dig a ditch"..can be thought of. Professional structure is based upon knowledge and mental capability, something medicine is based upon.

Any other medical profession, this discussion would NOT even be made. It would naturally be understood that it is a natural obligation that one would want to excel in knowledge, mentality, and have at the least a basic education.

R/r 911

[Doug]

VentMedic, When i was getting my degree I had the pleasure of taking 3 Psych courses, none of which covered meds or clinical treatment. The first courses that delved into that level were 300 level courses, usually reserved for those majoring in Psychology which is much more in depth than a paramedic needs, which is why I suggest a COURSE not a class in psych emergencies etc.

I live in a state that is trying to degree everything from plumbing to vet assistant (ironically not PD or FD, that you can do on your own, if you want, though from what i understand it actually works against you. Ususally in the form of "Well, Officer Smith, since you have a degree you should have known better than...")

[Ridryder 911]

VentMedic, When i was getting my degree I had the pleasure of taking 3 Psych courses, none of which covered meds or clinical treatment. The first courses that delved into that level were 300 level courses, usually reserved for those majoring in Psychology which is much more in depth than a paramedic needs, which is why I suggest a COURSE not a class in psych emergencies etc.

I live in a state that is trying to degree everything from plumbing to vet assistant (ironically not PD or FD, that you can do on your own, if you want, though from what i understand it actually works against you. Ususally in the form of "Well, Officer Smith, since you have a degree you should have known better than...")

Although, I understand your emphasis that the degree should focus upon the major, I do not truly believe alike medicine one can succeed without having the building blocks. For example as you described Psychology, that I doubt there is a Pyschology course that Paramedic would not need. In fact Psychology (advanced) should be required. What patient does not have a psychological response to an emergency? In fact all patients do, even those that do not require EMS care, still one can ask why they called 911? Again, another pyschological dilemma.

Part of the problem in EMS is that "specializing" has finally bitten us. Where others have always built upon the basics then specialize, we did the opposite. Where now others are focusing or specializing, we are now attempting to catch up on the simple building blocks of general knowledge of science, mathematics, psychology, etc...

One could wonder how much difference there would be in educational programs if the Paramedic text books could be published above a 10'th grade level? What discussions could be made among peers in regarding care, professional standards and "gulp" administration. Can one imagine if Supervisors actually was required to have formal knowledge of human behavior and business ettiqutte and principles... Wow!

R/r 911

[Doug]

Can anyone here show, with documented proof not just imperical knowledge, that getting a degree results in better EMS providers? It seems every other arguement on this site eventually boils down to "Don't just say it, prove it." except this one. I'm not saying that it does or doesn't help. I just request proof.

In my opinion makeing a degree worthwhile would require a major reworking of the education system first, targeted and applicable courses as opposed to the bizarre core requirements some colleges impose.

[VentMedic]

Can anyone here show, with documented proof not just imperical knowledge, that getting a degree results in better EMS providers? It seems every other arguement on this site eventually boils down to "Don't just say it, prove it." except this one. I'm not saying that it does or doesn't help. I just request proof.

You can stand in just about any ED and watch the different providers interact. It is usually not very difficult to pick out those that have 700 hours of training and those that have put a little extra effort into their education. One doesn't need a formal study to see things that can be so easily observed. Of course if the 700 hour training program is the norm in your area then you may be waiting awhile to see a difference. Once the minimal standards of training become the acceptable norm it is difficult to see outside of that tiny world created by closed minds.

Even in nursing it can become easy to recognize those that skirted through a 2 year program and those that did a BSN to advance into critical care. The mail order or Excelisor graduates can be spotted the easiest even if they have paramedic experience. For that reason few make it past the entry level nursing positions.

If one feels they have wasted their time with getting an education, then you may be solely relying on your 700 hours of training and have paid little attention to how the other classes could have enhanced your overall presentation and abilities as a professional.

From your college psych classes and the little bit of pharmacology from your Paramedic classes, can you not correlate the disorders with the medications to see patterns and interactions? That is what building a foundation is all about. College classes are designed to make one develop thinking skills along with comprehension whereas many paramedic classes just spoon feed you a recipe and enough information to pass a test.

Not everyone is academically inclined and you get out of an education what you put into it. If you think you already know it all from your 700 hour paramedic class, then college may be wasted on your brilliance.