Exceptions to safe ambulance driving rules?

[Flasurfbum]

The car does not have emergency lights on it, but it does have headlights that blink. Ward said he uses the lights while responding to storm damage and other emergency county operations in which he is the incident commander.

Headlight flashers. Technically they are emergency lights.

You are driving a CVPI, surplus from the local PD. You have HLFs in it. You pull behind another vehicle and activate them. Now, honestly, who here knows the CVPI headlights? I know I do. You see them, you slow down, you sit up straighter, you hang up the cell, whatever.

This Mutt should be arrested for impersonating a LEO.

Why have emergency lights on an ambulance? To go through intersections, and have traffic yield the right of way to you. However, I prefer to not drive with them on on highways, or areas where there is little traffic.

And who are we to judge if this ambulance was doing faster then it should have?

Unless we know the limitations of this particular unit, the road conditions, and traffic, how can we judge?

[Just Plain Ruff]

OK Edited for dumbness- The anecdote about to be shared is one of my dumber moments - and should not be done unless you have a Ferrari or Lamborghini as Wendy has pointed out. I thank the two valued emtcity members for the constructive(wendy) and destructive(flasurfbum) criticism. Was it stupid YES, would I do it again (nope). Again thanks for the criticism.

actually yes we do have a right to judge

transporting a patient not deemed to be a life threat then you should be driving the speed limit and no more.

If you company policy says when transporting non-emergency you will drive the speed limit and obey all applicable traffic laws.

Since when did driving 14 miles an hour over the speed limit become OK if your company's policies say "drive the posted speed limit" unless you are on an emergency run.

Sorry if you disagree but if GPS has you at 14 miles per hour over the posted speed limit then you are caught and owned. Discipline should follow.

And to have this county admin who felt the ambulance was speeding and going way to fast then even though he had no right to put on his flashers he at least could have reported the driver.

I have more than once called an ambulance service and reported their driver.

Case in point, I was travelling on a 4 lane divided highway going 74 miles per hour. A AMR ambulance came up behind me at a high rate of speed and passed me. I eventually caught up with him and he was going 87 miles per hour. Both the driver and attendant were in the front. I drove behind them for several miles all the while on the phone with the local AMR office. (EDIT - never said I followed right behind them - but I can see how people got that impression)

When the ambulance started to slow down I knew they got a hold of them. I drove by them and waved. Found out later that the driver was suspended for 5 days for this. (Again EDIT - I did not originally see the crewmembers in the ambulance but when I drove by them I recognized them and they recognized me and we waved - but again I can see how it sounded like I was being arrogant and a "twit" per surfbum)

If the policy says drive the posted speed limit and you get caught then sorry, you have no place to complain. Especially if you get caught going that fast without a patient in back.

[Flasurfbum]

*Editied for clarity.*

actually yes we do have a right to judge

transporting a patient not deemed to be a life threat then you should be driving the speed limit and no more.

I never read in the artilcle where it mentioned her condition. Only that she was going to the cardiologist.

And to have this county admin who felt the ambulance was speeding and going way to fast then even though he had no right to put on his flashers he at least could have reported the driver.

Agreed, this wannabe had no right to do what he did. You gotta problem, call ones dispatch.

[firedoc5]

Anytime you are going over the speed limit, or think you might, you need to have at least the lights on. Siren not necessarily needed except in heavier traffic. Why didn't he have his lights on. Or was it not all that much of an emergency and he was just not paying attention to his speed. Like most ambulance personnel, he might have had a lead foot.

One thing I think is more dangerous is how some services, especially smaller volunteer one's, think that anytime they have a patient aboard, especially non-emergency/ transport only runs, they still their lights on. I think some do it just so they can have those pretty lights going since they may not do it very often. They'd sit at a stop light until it turns green. Confusing other traffic who would stop expecting them to proceed. We watched where a civilian driver stopped in the middle of an intersection and got out, waving his arms trying to get the ambulance driver to go on through and he wouldn't. He'd just sit there and smile and wave. Drove us nuts. We got on the radio and told them to either go through or turn off their lights.

[Just Plain Ruff]

You cut me to the quick flasurfbum

I was not being arrogant, I was waving to a crew at a service that I used to work for. They recognized me and they waved back. I didn't mean to make it sound Like I was being arrogant.

thanks for the insult though. So do you get this way when someone disagrees with you?

as for the speed limit, what do you tell the legal eagles who ask you why were you going 15 or so miles above the posted limit when you wrecked the ambulance. Were you abiding by your companies policies??? If the answer is no then you are at fault no matter what the other people on the road are doing.

So if a bunch of poeple jumped off a building because they wanted to and you are on that building would you jump too? I would hope not.

But then again, thanks for calling me an arrogant twit shows me your level of maturity when someone doesn't fall under your belief system or who disagrees with your premises.

[Eydawn]

Yeah, I gotta agree with surfer bum here...

WTF were you doing chasing them and following them at the same high rate of speed? I don't care if you were driving a Ferrari, that's meant to go that fast... you were breaking the law too! And if you went past them when they slowed down, weren't you still speeding?

I have to say, I would have simply called in a report of aggressive/over the speed limit/dangerous driving to the non-emergent police line, and given them the license plate and location of the ambulance. Then, I'd have called their supervisors and given the super a heads up about how badly their employees were driving... same report as given to the police.

Not tried to catch up to them because I thought they were going too fast. Holy logic FAIL, batman!

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[Just Plain Ruff]

Never been on a road where the speed limit, and the actual speed drove never met, huh?

Flasurfbum - that's a fallacious argument. You are saying in essence that since everyone else is going faster than you then you have the right to speed. If you follow your company policy then you do what is required. You have no recourse if they suspend you or fire you for speeding because you broke policy and went faster than the policy allows.

[Eydawn]

Now, in a perfect world, we'd never have to go faster than the posted speed limit because we'd live in Europe or Japan where they rely on natural selection to take care of bad drivers... and where driving is a privilege, not a right.

Sometimes it is necessary to drive with the flow of traffic in order to not cause an accident, which would damage you and your unit. Speed itself is not the most dangerous factor in an accident; speed differential between colliding objects is... I can't tell you how many times I've had near misses while going the speed limit, and how many fewer times I've had near misses when I'm following the flow of traffic (within reason, that is).

Of course, with a high center of gravity and a heavy arse truck, you're going to want to drive a little more conservatively!

I'm not condoning speeding if your company policies state not to speed. But I'm also in favor of using judgment while driving, rather than blindly adhering to policies.

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[Just Plain Ruff]

Yeah, I gotta agree with surfer bum here...

WTF were you doing chasing them and following them at the same high rate of speed? I don't care if you were driving a Ferrari, that's meant to go that fast... you were breaking the law too! And if you went past them when they slowed down, weren't you still speeding?

I have to say, I would have simply called in a report of aggressive/over the speed limit/dangerous driving to the non-emergent police line, and given them the license plate and location of the ambulance. Then, I'd have called their supervisors and given the super a heads up about how badly their employees were driving... same report as given to the police.

Not tried to catch up to them because I thought they were going too fast. Holy logic FAIL, batman!

Wendy

CO EMT-B

Did I ever say I was in the right by doing what I did? NO I DIDN'T Sure I broke the law, sure it was not the right thing to do. But what I did I did and if I had gotten caught then I would have not come here crying to anyone about getting caught. I'm responsible for my own actions. What is done is done. I was simply pointing out a situation that I was in at the time. Never made excuses never said i wasn't in the wrong.

As a matter of fact, I at one time was that EMT in the ambulance.

I did get pulled over for going too fast on the road. I got a 300 dollar ticket, a 10 day suspension and nearly lost my job. Did I complain then NO am I complaining now NO

But what I am trying to say which I fear I have done badly at is that if your company policy does not allow you to go over the speed limit while on a transfer or enroute to a transfer or just driving then you are responsible for what happens to you.

This incident happened about 3 months after I left AMR for another job and that was about 8 years ago, it's not like it just happened.

And wendy, I was driving a car that had a bumper sticker that said my other car is a ferrari does that count?

Plus 84 miles per hour isn't fast, that's just coasting

[Eydawn]

Ah, but if it's too fast legally for the ambulance, it is also too fast for you.

Ruff, you tried to make a good point about how it is justifiable to report bad driving/speeding when you observe an ambulance being driven by an idiot... but you shot yourself in the foot with your anecdote about how you went about doing so. You should have included the disclaimer of "Ok, this was stupid, and not the right way to do this, but this is what I did one time."

Holy logic FAIL!

I know you speak from experience and your base message is "You take the risk, you reap the consequences." But I have to say, back to the original discussion, I think the storm officer did something pretty dumb! Since he wasn't a cop... he should have just reported it instead of taking matters into his own hands.

Wendy

CO EMT-B