When are we going to wake up as a profession?

[BushyFromOz]

Anyone without a College degree is worthless and those that try to say otherwise are then being thrown under the bus and written off as incompetent.

Pig shit

]It's always easy to look back AFTER you've gone to College and then tell people "it should be required". That just implies to me a desire to make up for something that may be lacking in ones personal life.

More pig shit, but at least my mandarin tress will do well next spring.

It amazes me how people like yourself take an increase in standards as a direct attack on your manhood. In have not seen one person here tell you that you are useless, what i have seen are people advocating a new standard for future entrants to the industry. You say these good people attack you because you did not go to college? You say that you can do it just as well if not better? You feel that this dastardly idea is somehow a backwards step? Heres a thought mate, in many parts of the world this is becoming the new standard, and yet you continue accept the shitty status quo because its within your comfort zone and "thats how its always been done". Fess up, the real reason you oppose this is because if you now had to do it all again in the fashion that these people propose you couldn't be bothered to put in the effort

Drink a cup of concrete and harden the hell up.

[EMS49393]

It amazes me how people like yourself take an increase in standards as a direct attack on your manhood.

Fess up, the real reason you oppose this is because if you now had to do it all again in the fashion that these people propose you couldn't be bothered to put in the effort

Drink a cup of concrete and harden the hell up.

=D> You are my new hero.

[VentMedic]

I did not respond to the post by KSEMT122 because you will not see the minimally educated EMT or EMT-P respresenting the profession at State or National meetings. More than likely special interest groups, such as FDs, Ambulance and Medic Mill owners, will be respresented by highly educated individuals who will say:

"I have several degrees and see no need for the Paramedic to have any more education than 700 hours".

If one looks at the owners of the medic mills, ambulance companies and the management for FDs, the education levels are impressive. However, the medic mills will hire EMT-P products of a medic mill as their instructors. The "cult" philosophy can then be passed on to the followers to carry on for the better good of those that will make a profit or gain from the lower education levels. If one has little education beyond GED or high school, they will not have anything to compare the teachings of these schools. That is one way to control the market for one's own agenda. Unions have been doing this for years. If one also notices in unions, you, too, can advance to a leader in the union with higher education and reap the profits from the members.

It is only after the "followers" themselves see a greater need for education can this cycle be broken.

[air.stump]

I did the education thing backwards. In other words, I got my basic in the military and got my paramedic cert after the military. I then went back to school and started a BS in science. What I learned from the general education courses of the first two years, re-enforced and enhanced what I had learned in paramedic school. Things were crisper and clearer and made way more sense than following some cookbook set of protocols.

Education is the key, everything else falls into place after EDUCATION is the standard for EVERYONE.

toutdoors,

I have a question for you. Are you going to your paramedic program because you honestly want to be a paramedic? OR Are you going to the program to be more competitive for the FD promotion boards?

No dig, just curious.

[BEorP]

If you don't want the education, stop bitching about being paid like a fast food employee.

[sub:15f8f32958]This is just a general comment from my read of the last page of posts and isn't directed at any single person.[/sub:15f8f32958]

[Just Plain Ruff]

holy aunt jemima

I have heard it all. With a single post and one post in support we have all been notified that having a broad base of knowledge is not the key to being a good medic, it's the key to being a stupid medic who has too much skoolin.

I know of many many medics who write crappy narratives because they really don't know how to write a grammatically correct sentence. English composition will help them with that.

I know of a good many medics who know that anaphylaxis is bad but why it's bad they have no clue.

They know that an MI is bad but they don't know why it's bad.

Why are nurses required to get at least an associate degree rather than a certificate - that's what a CNA is required to do. They are required to get at least an associate degree and more often than not they are required to get a Bachelors because darn it, thats just what a professional would do.

I'll bet the same person that says more education is not the answer also believe that they can do the job of a nurse with a paramedic license.

what I do find is that the resistance that is encountered in increasing the educational standards fall from only a few distinct subgroups in EMS.

1. Fire departments who require their FF's to be medics and they only will pay for the minimal education that will get their medics to fulfill their requirements.

2. EMT's who have been emt's forever and they have missed out on getting their medic in the past so now they are faced with the prospect of having to go back and get more than the minimum that used to be required.

And finally, those who don't think they can afford to go to school.

I know that if you are required to get at least an associates then you are going to a college or community college which offers financial aid. When I went to get my masters degree, I had a terrible credit rating yet i received over 50K in student loans with not even one look at my credit history. The government guarantees these loans until you get out of school.

We really have dumbed down the curriculum to the state it is now. When you have people who are revamping the national standards and they are taking out from the medic curriculum some of the basic tenets that we all learned and just giving it a once over then this is where we fall into disrepair.

In no way was my medic class long enough. I learned just enough to be dangerous on the streets and it was up to me to further my education. Remember paramedic school is just a base for jumping off. You have to take responsibility to learn more and keep learning. If you refuse to do that then I am not sure if you are an asset to the EMS community or a hindrance.

More education is the answer, not dumbing down the curriculum so the least common denominator can pass with one hand behind their back and their eyes covered, making it so easy that a caveman can do it.

let me close with this one question

If you are the victim of a GSW or having a heart attack, do you want someone who did the minimum taking care of you or do you want someone who actually went the extra mile in their schooling, for me, I'll take that guy who did the minimum any day over the overachiever. (sarcasm) but that is what I see on these responses every day here. "I only want to do what I have to do to get my license, the rest is too hard, whaa whaa whaa!""

[Asysin2leads]

As someone with a BS in Biology and BA, minor in chemistry, physics, over 200 hours of undergrad and 30+ of grad, I can say that I don't see a true need for a 2 year program, aka associates, to practice as a medic.

Do you work as a paramedic? Really, just asking.

Selective hiring eliminates those who cannot write legible and intelligible run reports. I know of individuals that have PhD's that cannot write a coherent e-mail, let alone think they would ever be able to learn to write a good narrative.

Show me the selective hiring process that can size up an individual's capabilities better than their overall academic and employment record and I'll get you an article in Forbes. I would like to talk to these PhD's and ask exactly how they finished their dissertation and multiple thesis paper if a coherent e-mail is beyond their reach.

Mathematics come easier to certain individuals than others. If drug calculations are that important for you to do in your head, we need to eliminate many of our highly trained physicians. Many of these docs rely on PDR's and many of the new programs to do their drug calcs for them.

For a person with multiple backgrounds in different academic fields, you really seem to have missed the whole building block part of the sciences. Learning math is not about drug calculations. Learning math is about understanding at least pre-algebra, so you can understand chemistry, so you can understand Anatomy and Physiology, so you can understand pathology and pharmacology. There is this mythos about the doctors who maybe all good with that pointy headed stuff, but can't done do a math calculation, to which I reply, if you give me an attending physician, maybe in the middle of doing his multiple daily tasks he will have problems doing a drug calculation immediately in his head, but that doesn't by anyway mean he never learned basic math skills.

What we can do is follow the p's of proper marketing. Promote ourselves, properly place our services for ease of use, price the services in a manner to pay employees a living wage, package ourselves (make ourselves readily visible, no t-shirts, no jeans, wear uniforms that reflect professional attire).

Despite drug reps, pharmaceutical kickbacks, and Cialis commercials, medicine is supposed to be about doing right for the patient, not selling them something. Sure, I can be like many start an ambulance companies, buy some shiny looking ambulances, get some eager young and pretty people to put on them and throw some pieces of official looking paper at them to proudly display to anyone who asks, and then offer maybe a plasma screen TV or stereo give away to increase 911 calls, but at the end of the day, there would be a lot of people who did not get the care they needed, and a lot of people would suffer, because I'd have people getting the wrong care by pretty people in pretty ambulances, and they would suffer so that we could make a buck, which is definitely not why I ever got into this field.

BTW, exactly where are you that your MD's can't do simple math and your PhD's can't write coherent sentences? I'd like to have a chat with your local colleges academic standards boards.

If education was the key, then hospital and fire based services would pay accordingly. They would not have a disproportionate pay rate. It is not the education that allows them to be paid more. It is the placement and promotion of service that allows them to draw the higher check.

See above. Some of us believe in actually helping people properly, rather than drawing the bigger check. BTW, I was thinking of toaster oven giveaways to each new admission at the ER. We could slap some stickers about healthy eating or some crap on the side and bill the hell out of Medicare for it. Whaddya say?

[letmesleep]

Did I wake up this morning in 1930?

I will make my opinion simple......mark me down for education!!!!!

[mediccjh]

After reading this thread, I feel the need to beat my head against the wall twice.

Once for not doing the degree route. But I'm going backwards and I'm going to do it.

Second because I have now realized why we will not advance as a profession.

The driftwood needs to be collected and burned in a bonfire. I have the gasoline.

[paramedicmike]

The driftwood needs to be collected and burned in a bonfire. I have the gasoline.

Party at Herbie's!!!!

I'll bring the marshmellows.

-be safe