Warning to parents

[under-dreaming]

It is true, Ruffems, it is not purely a result of bad parenting. I did in fact hastily point my finger at the parent in my first response to the topic. It is important for me to express to you that I do not think that you are a bad parent for allowing your son to play in the playground without his crocs on. My wife was the same way when she was a child, never wore shoes. I would like to revise my list of who I really think is to blame for this incident.

1. The city. The city is responsible for using our tax dollars to maintain and keep these facilities clean. It seems that the reason for switching to the safety mats was a matter of ease of cleaning as well as what they would consider improved safety standards.

2. The companies that manufacture the safety mats. For making those things BLACK!!! Or other dark colors that are known to absorb heat energy for that matter. And also for taking advantage of a situation that probably got them unreasonable amounts of profit.

3. The city (again). For not regulating the color of the mats. For not considering the heat absorption of the mats. For not posting signs pertaining to the heat absorption of the mats in plain sight of those who will be using them. In essence, for not taking the time to make this transition into safety mats, a truly safe one.

4. The consumer (mostly parents). For not addressing this type of situation earlier/before a child burned the hell out of their feet. I am referring to addressing the issue by writing to your city counsel, or generate a rally for the issue, get on the news or whatever else you can think of. What I mean by this is that we are strong, able, and beautiful creatures; if something needs to be done, we have the power to do it.

I would also like to thank you, Ruffems. For bringing it to my attention that it is too easy to rest on the quick judgment of pointing the finger at bad parents in situations like this. Especially when there are so many hands in the pot that created this situation.

-Kiel

[Chief1C]

What's next- bubble wrap suits?

!

They would suffocate in those...

[DwayneEMTP]

... And somehow, we're all still alive and relatively well-adjusted.

What a ridiculously macho thing to say. Of course you didn't all survive, and very few grew up to be well adjusted. Speaking of your generation of course....

Some died quicky, some died slowly, some continued through life only partially the person they were before...

Based on your reasoning then surly you think it's silly to use seatbelts and bike helmets, right?

Guys, just because you can think of something macho to say doesn't mean it makes any sense. When we know better, we do better. Finding that we need to make positive changes does not make this a world of sissies...it simply means we're becoming smart enough to care for those that can't care for themselves...

In the last few months it seems that even many that were not that way before suddely feel that the 'tough' or 'macho' answer is best, even if it's stupid. C'mon guys...we can all do better than this.

Dwayne

[Just Plain Ruff]

I would never dispute the fact that I as a parent am completely responsible for my childs welfare, no one other than myself and my wife are responsible.

We can delegate the responsibility to others to act, in proxy, with our permission as guardians of my child.

I would never shirk or shy away from that responsibility but do you honestly think that this parent in question ever once considered or asked the question --- hmmmm those black things look hot, maybe I better check on the temperature of those black things.

Never in a million years because I know that I never once have questioned the temperature of that playground covering.

You would think that the surface of that covering would never get hot enough to cause 3rd degree burns to a childs feet.

I can almost bet that no adult who was in charge of putting this type of covering on a playground even thought about testing the temperature. I bet that was not even in their testing of the materials.

While I was on the playground with my son I did a little test, 93 degrees in the shade. I touched the playground covering and they were warm but not HOT!!! I also tested it out in different places and the temperature was different in different places. In the shade the temp of the covering was warm, in the direct sunlight the temperature was warm up to hot but not hot enough to burn a childs feet in a short period of time. I tested it in several different locations and the temps were never hot enough that I thought my sons feet would burn.

I suspect that at the playground that the child burned his feet at that there was something more going on in the covering. Was this the same type of covering as the one I was testing out or was this more of a plastic covering rather than black matte rubber? Was there some other composition of the covering that pre-disposed that particular playground to become much hotter than the one I was testing.

So with this discussion on the forums in my head I did a quick search of playgrounds in the Springfield massachussetts area and found several different types of coverings.

1. black rubber scraps - like tires shredded and placed 5-6 inches thick.

2. Wood chips

3. Black matte(finish) rubber covering

4. and a shiny black near plastic consistency covering.

Even at 7:45 last night when I found number 4, it was very hot to the touch. I don't know if it would have burned feet but it was quite hot and the sun was not even directly over it. Numbers 1, 2 and 3 all were not hot at all.

I suspect that the type of covering is the key to all this and the causal factor of this childs injury. The quesiton I have is was the covering that burned the childs feet number 1, 2, 3 or 4. I suspect #4.

I know this is a bit long but I now know, that the covering I found in Springfield, if it exists in my town I will not use it.

Just a bunch of thoughts.

[CBEMT]

just how do you intend to keep a childs shoes on them when they are on one part of the playground and you are on another.

Is it your assertion that a three year-old's parents being in some other area of the playground is acceptable?

Based on your reasoning then surly you think it's silly to use seatbelts and bike helmets, right?

There's a difference between a bike helmet and padded canopied playgrounds.

When I was in school I could count the number of kids I knew on meds on on one hand. Now that one hand counts the kids NOT on meds. Are you trying to tell me that's progress?

Ultimate issue: the parents of a child still in diapers should not be so far from the child that they can't prevent him or her from removing articles of clothing. Parenting 101, you'd think.

[Christopher.Collins]

Now you have half the kids in the US on meds before they're even teenagers, and when they grow up they're effing useless whiny crybabies.

We should do what they do in Greece and some other countries... mandate that all male (natural) citizens join the armed forces for a minimum of two years. But in fairness we could make it for females too.

Ive seen some real half ass cr@p join the service... and they have come out really decent people.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Is it your assertion that a three year-old's parents being in some other area of the playground is acceptable?

There's a difference between a bike helmet and padded canopied playgrounds.

When I was in school I could count the number of kids I knew on meds on on one hand. Now that one hand counts the kids NOT on meds. Are you trying to tell me that's progress?

Ultimate issue: the parents of a child still in diapers should not be so far from the child that they can't prevent him or her from removing articles of clothing. Parenting 101, you'd think.

I disagree, you have a child who is wearing crocs like my son. It takes 2 seconds for him to remove his shoes. There is no way you can prove to me unless you are right on top of your child that they can't remove their crocs before you get to them. Of course you can get to them while they are taking them off or very shortly after and make them put them back on but they can get those style of shoes off very quickly.

Any other style of shoes or clothing I will agree with your thoughts though. Just not crocs which if I remember is what the child was originally wearing.

[Christopher.Collins]

On a lighter side...

My old firehouse has a playground next to it. At night time we use it for training in gull gear and SCBA; anything from RIT to SAR to firefighter survival. It is nice to hear that they are now incorporating burn houses into these playgrounds... itll save time and money as well as travel to the nearest one :twisted:

[Richard B the EMT]

From the New York Daily News, link at

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2008/0...ith_summ-1.html

Hot Feet? You want a ticket with that?

Parks workers threaten parents with summons over kids going barefoot

BY MATT LYSIAK, ANNAIS MORALES, ERIN DURKIN AND RACHEL MONAHAN

DAILY NEWS WRITERS

Tuesday, July 29th 2008, 10:24 PM

The city has found a creative way to deal with complaints that superhot playground mats are burning children's feet:

Punish the parents.

Parents at parks around the city told the Daily News they've been threatened with fines for allowing their tykes to run barefoot among the slides and swings.

"This is no joke. Too many kids are burning their feet off," said one worker at Owls Head Park in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn. "If you take your shoes off, you will get a ticket."

Parks Department officials insisted the aggressive approach came from misinformed workers trying to keep kids from getting hurt on the often blistering safety mats.

Parks spokeswoman Jama Adams admitted parkgoers are required to follow posted rules instructing that shoes be worn - and that a summons could be written if kids don't take heed.

"People were giving out wrong information," said Adams. "It would be possible to write a summons, but no summonses have been issued."

But workers at St. Catherine's Park on the upper East Side and the Boxcar Playground in the Bronx's Crotona Park warned that tickets would be written to those going barefoot.

"Parents [are] trying to sue," said a worker at St. Catherine's, who also said she is now required to water down the mats two or three times a day to keep them cool.

A mother at Russell Pederson Playground in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, said a parks worker told a group of mothers, "If you don't get shoes on your kids, you are going to get a ticket. We are instituting a zero-tolerance policy and you will be fined."

A Daily News investigation found scorching hot temperatures on surfaces at city parks, where artificial turf fields and the black mats under jungle gyms and slides can top 160 degrees.

Advocates and parents of toddlers burned on playground mats said ticketing was misguided approach.

"That would be absurd," said Geoffrey Croft of NYC Park Advocates. "Are they going to have the kids sign their names in crayon?"

Parents and advocates again called on the city to replace the safety mats yesterday and to make sure parks warn parents of the danger.

"Options are available that can eliminate this danger," said state Sen. Carl Kruger (D-Brooklyn), who suggested that there are cool safety surfaces on the market. "This is a wakeup call to the mayor."

[Just Plain Ruff]

I wonder how much it will cost to replace these matts?

Will it cost more money to replace the matts or will it cost more to fight the lawsuit and pay out the damages?

Anyone want to take a guess.